Opinions sought on new PC hardware upgrade

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi all,

OK, it's upgrade time for me....

I plan to get a couple of Intel Q6600 quad-core CPU's and mobo's in order to work more efficiently and crunch a  few more WU's (coz my old machines just haven't got the "bottle" anymore

I've got a choice (as I don't need a monitor as I have a KVM).

I can either buy some components such as CPU, mobo, RAM and shove them into an existing suitable case + 400W PSU or two (which I have "left over"). I've got the graphics and HDD but I need a Windows OS as well. So it's either XP or Vista

So, per "system" the maths works out as (and all exclude VAT):

CPU is £150
Mobo is (say) £80
1Gb RAM is (say) £40
OS is £80 - £130 (depending on where you buy it !)

Total: £350

OR:

I can buy a nice new Dell XPS210 such as this

which, for a mere £382+VAT comes with a Core 2 Duo E4400, 250Gb HDD, 1Gb RAM, 8x DVD-Rewriter, card reader, a 1 yr warranty and Vista Home Basic. I can then sell off the E4400 and buy a Q6600 for around 150+VAT. Total spend £532 less maybe £30 if I sell the E4400. So, £500 gets me a Q6600 and new HDD and DVD-RW's.

So, is the extra £150 spend "worthwhile" for new HDD, DVD-RW and warranty???


Questions, questions ????

Any views???

regards,

Tim

[Temujin]

I can either buy some components such as CPU, mobo, RAM and shove them into an existing suitable case + 400W PSU or two (which I have "left over").

The only thing I'd comment on is the PSUs.
I think you're going to need more than 400W mate
my E6600 refused to boot untill it had a 550W installed, so I'd guess a quaddy  would require even more.

[UBT - Timbo]

I can either buy some components such as CPU, mobo, RAM and shove them into an existing suitable case + 400W PSU or two (which I have "left over").

The only thing I'd comment on is the PSUs.
I think you're going to need more than 400W mate
my E6600 refused to boot untill it had a 550W installed, so I'd guess a quaddy  would require even more.

Hmmmm...hadn't thought too much about that....and the Dell I mentioned only has a 275W PSU...

Mind you - it's not like I'm going to be using some gi-normous high-wattage twin-bay graphics card and multiple optical drives etc....

Think I'll need to do some more math !! Now where's that slide rule and wattage meter?

Thanks and regards,

Tim

[MikeMarsUK]

My DIY Q6600 box has a 430W power supply (an 85% efficient FSP unit, special offer £ 22 from Scan), and it's fine, but it has a really low-power graphics card with it.  Gigabyte P35-S3 M/B at £ 65, 4GB OCZ DDR2 ram at £ 180, nVidia 6200TC, SATA HD, Scythe Ninja B heatsink + fan, 4 x 120cm fans, case @ £ 27, openSUSE 10.3 32-bit (by mistake, I'd intended to download the 64-bit version).

The Dell boxes are good but don't try to upgrade them.  If I was you I'd go for the DIY approach.  You might want to look at a barebones system based on the G33 chipset (P35 with graphics).  Compatible with Penryn (45nm next-generation quads).

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=664831

[UBT - Timbo]

My DIY Q6600 box has a 430W power supply (an 85% efficient FSP unit, special offer £ 22 from Scan), and it's fine, but it has a really low-power graphics card with it.  Gigabyte P35-S3 M/B at £ 65, 4GB OCZ DDR2 ram at £ 180, nVidia 6200TC, SATA HD, Scythe Ninja B heatsink + fan, 4 x 120cm fans, case @ £ 27, openSUSE 10.3 32-bit (by mistake, I'd intended to download the 64-bit version).

Yup - the overall "DIY" approach works for me (as I've been doing these last 20 years - my first PC was the only time I ever bought "ready-made"...).

But the trouble is, I need Windows rather than Linux/Wine due to some bespoke financial accounting packages that are in use.

And, TBH, it's the acquisition of fully licensed Windows OS that screws up the DIY path....

The Dell boxes are good but don't try to upgrade them.  If I was you I'd go for the DIY approach.  You might want to look at a barebones system based on the G33 chipset (P35 with graphics). Compatible with Penryn (45nm next-generation quads).

Yup - aware that the Dell's are pretty much "dead end's" as far as upgradeability goes...!

But my view is that they offer low cost, ease of purchase complete with OS...and although I'd still perhaps go the DIY route again at some point, it's really a time and effort consideration, esp. when you consider the (UK) cost of Windows....!

thanks and regards

Tim

[melter65]

I've only upgraded my Dell as far as putting 2x1Gb RAM in it (it came with only 512Mb fitted) but it has been a reliable computer (I heard a lot of horror stories after I'd bought it!)

Hoping to fit a cheapo graphics card as soon as it arrives!

[jaysback]

It was a long time ago, but I once changed a p2 350 out for a p2 450 and ended up flashing the bios on the motherboard to get it to post.
Had some sort of serial number check thing in the bios.
Seem to recall it being an old gateway machine.
Don't know if dell do the same?

[MikeMarsUK]

Don't know if it's of any interest, but we have a 'Quad' systems thread over at CPDN:

http://www.climateprediction.net/board/ ... php?t=5885

[UBT - Terry]

Hi Tim Friend of mine has just built same sort of set up and he found for all round power needs overclocking, cooling etc he has to run a 900w PSU after ive bought them bits off Gary I'm biulding one myself and I'm gonna use a 900 also..


 Terry

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi Tim Friend of mine has just built same sort of set up and he found for all round power needs overclocking, cooling etc he has to run a 900w PSU after ive bought them bits off Gary I'm bulding one myself and I'm gonna use a 900 also..


 Terry

"For-mi-dable " (but said in a sorrowful French accent)....

And I thought these CPU's were getting more efficient....a Q6600 is only "95W" !

My 3GHz P4 is claimed to run at 82 Watts, and yet works perfectly well off a 450W supply.

Mind you, I'm not going to be filling the PC case with humungous "add-ins"....

And I don't really fancy the fan noise a 900 Watter would make...

So, next part of the query....any one recommend any decent fan-less power supplies ???

regards,

Tim

[UBT - Timbo]

Don't know if it's of any interest, but we have a 'Quad' systems thread over at CPDN:

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the link - very useful info there....

Just got to draw up some plans for what I need and which direction to go in....can't decide now between a P35 board or wait for the X38 !!

regards

Tim

[MikeMarsUK]

Review of a power supply today which may be interesting:

http://www.hardwarelogic.com/news/136/A ... 10-15.html

Not fanless, but they couldn't hear the fan in use (21db is very quiet).

It is an 80%+ efficiency fan which for Boinc is important since it's on 24/7 (and causes less waste heat).  Efficient PSUs will normally be quieter than inefficient PSUs since there is less heat to vent.

The P38 performs around the same as the P35 from all the reviews I've seen so far, so personally I'd stick with the P35.

[UBT - Timbo]

Review of a power supply today which may be interesting:

http://www.hardwarelogic.com/news/136/A ... 10-15.html

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the link.

Agreed - the high efficiency is a big plus in a PSU's favour, esp. given that electricity prices (from now on) will always be going up....due to either gas/oil running out or nuclear needing to be built or dismantled

I'll keep an eye out for the Corsair (and it's Seasonic equivalent !!) and see what's available...

For now, I have some X-Power 500W PSU's which are quite quiet...but the biggest noise is coming from my Zalman CPU cooler fan - a large low speed jobby, but which still makes quite a bit of noise..

regards,

Tim

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi all,

I've just bitten the bullet, my credit card has been flexed and I've ordered:

1x Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R mobo
1x Q6600 (G0) CPU
1x Arctic Cooling Freezer 7
2x 1Gb Corsair PC6400 TwinX XMS2 CAS4-4-4-12

It would have been 2 lots of the above, but I thought I'd get one set up for now and next month, if things go well, either get something similar or maybe learn from any mistakes I might make, and get something slightly different.

(I'm used to building systems, having done it for the last 17 years since i got my first 486 !).

....hmmm.....I think I'll wait a little and see what I can do with my 450W power supplies first....most firms do free delivery on PSU's anyways, so I can always get a bigger one if needs be...

So, thanks for everyones advice up to now....

regards

Tim

(Cut and pasted from a different, non-relevant thread)

[UBT - Timbo]

B*GGER

No sooner had I parted with some cash, then this happens:

Intel confirms 'Skulltrail' Quad SLI support

see here

Dang....I could really do with an 8 core PC....! Crunch them little WU's into tiny little pieces......!

regards

Tim

[MikeMarsUK]

Congratulations, should be a good system  I'm jealous about the G-0 stepping.

Intel confirms 'Skulltrail' Quad SLI support

see here
...

We have an Octo-core and many-core thread over at CPDN, which might be worth browsing through.

The SkullTrail (previously called 'V8') is basically a dual Clovertown with SLI added.  Can't be overclocked IIRC.  It runs with very hot, expensive and slow FB-DRAM memory.  Running two overclocked quads instead would be both significantly cheaper and also significantly faster (about twice as much bang for the buck).

If they do a clovertown which allows DDR2 / 3 to be used instead, it might be different...

[UBT - Timbo]

Congratulations, should be a good system  I'm jealous about the G-0 stepping.

You don't need to be too jealous, as I'm sure the prices will come down in time...I just didn't like the idea of a "too-hot" CPU !!

Once some cheaper Penryns come along, then the Q6600 will be moved down the chain to just be a cruncher cum print & net server rather than an everyday/everything PC ...

We have an Octo-core and many-core thread over at CPDN, which might be worth browsing through....

Yet more useful reading....that 80 core sounds good...!

and maybe if IBM get their act together and release some CELL CPU's, then the mythical 1000 CPU mobo might actually happen....?

regards

Tim

[UBT - Rick Horn]

I quite fancy a 1000 CPU rig, and if I mortgaged the house, I might even be able to buy one, but could I afford to pay the electricity bill? !!!

Rick.

[UBT - Timbo]

I quite fancy a 1000 CPU rig, and if I mortgaged the house, I might even be able to buy one, but could I afford to pay the electricity bill? !!!

Rick.

I would also assume you'd need a proper "unlimited" broadband account.....think of the amount of data throughput that 1,000 CPU's would generate...

regards

Tim

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi all,

I've just bitten the bullet, my credit card has been flexed and I've ordered:

1x Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R mobo
1x Q6600 (G0) CPU
1x Arctic Cooling Freezer 7
2x 1Gb Corsair PC6400 TwinX XMS2 CAS4-4-4-12...

Well I ordered the above on Monday and it was all in stock....so it should have been packed and despatched Tuesday for delivery today....

Guess what?

It wasn't sent.....the supplier had a problem with the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 and left it until 8pm last night to advise me that they wouldn't be delivering today....

Instead it'll leave today and arrive tomorrow....!

Hmmm.....at least they told me...albeit a wee bit late.....leaving me no option but to change my plans at the last minute and thereby upsetting some clients of mine...!

I'll have to see if it's worthwhile ordering again from them....(no names for now....in case they put a hex on the kit...or they send me a load of duff stock...)

So, I'm sorry to say, I'm missed out on at least 24 hours of Quad core crunching...hope you'll all forgive me

regards

Tim

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi all,

After a little bit of hassle (nothing unusual there!), my new Quad core is now crunching....!

Been a bit busy of late, even tho' SWMBO is away for the weekend....maybe that's why I'm busy !!!


I got "caught out" when trying to install the mobo drivers, as for some reason it locked up the PC....

Couldn't suss it out to start with...thought the CD might be faulty...

Then I had a brainwave...coz the Gigabyte driver disc says:

Gigabyte 6-QUAD/S-series Ultra durable 2 Motherboards Intel 3-series Utility CD

And I thought it was a CDROM.....but it wasn't....the bloomin' "CD" is a DVD  !!!!!

And I using a 48x CDROM drive to install the OS and the drivers....

So, swapped the CD for a DVD drive and everything worked...!

Then a quick update to my BOINC preferences to allow multi-CPU to use 4 CPUs....


Now, running some SETI WU's to see how it copes (temp-wise, mainly), before I settle down for some 24/7 stuff....

Yeeeee-HA !!

regards,

Tim

[jaysback]

Nice one.
Glad you got it up and running and also built it yourself.
At least you know what you have to deal with that way.

[UBT - Timbo]

Nice one.
Glad you got it up and running and also built it yourself.
At least you know what you have to deal with that way.

Hi there...

It's not the first PC I've assembled.....but it IS the first 4-core CPU PC that I've built.....

Gonna have to get rid of some of the older bits now....

SuperMicro and Tyan mobo's, even an old MSI - all working, just now not powerful enough to BOINC with

And the RAM and some other bits...SCSI cards, Parallel port cards, and other "interesting" bits...

Someone might be interested on fleabay???

Or can just "junk" them...but as they work, seems a shame !!

regards

Tim

[UBT - Mikee]

And the RAM and some other bits...SCSI cards, Parallel port cards, and other "interesting" bits...

Someone might be interested on fleabay???

Or can just "junk" them...but as they work, seems a shame !!

regards

Tim

If you're going to junk them, offer them on 'Freecycle'. There's usually someone who rebuilds computers and offers them to good causes.

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi all,

Now this is what happens when you get yourself a weeny, itsy-bitsy, tiny, little QUAD CPU.....




hehehehehehehehehehe  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:  :twisted:

regards

Tim

[melter65]

"And tomorrow ze vorld shall be mine!!"  :twisted:  :twisted:

[UBT - Timbo]

Nice one.
Glad you got it up and running and also built it yourself.
At least you know what you have to deal with that way.

Hi,

Some words of advice please, oh wise one.

How did you overclock your Q6600?

We have the same mobo and CPU and I'm just curious which settings you've used within the MIT settings.

Also, are you using the CIA2 function?

(see page 52-53 of the mobo manual).

regards,

Tim

[jaysback]

Sorry about the delay in the reply, had no emails about the thread.
Your main problem will be heat, while the arctic freezer is a ok heatsink it won't cope to well with a overclocked quad.
If you google "intel TAT" and install it you will have direct readings from each core temp.
At work on a 12hr night shift atm but off the top of my head.
All the turbo setting things are off if possible or auto.
CPU v core 1.475
FSB multi @ 380 x the 9 cpu multi giving 3420.

I will post up my exact settings tomorrow, but I on the older B3 stepping so you should be able to get 3600 without having to over clock your memory if you are using pc6400 (800mhz) and the 2.00 memory divider.

[jaysback]

Right.
MIT settings.

CPU CLOCK 9x
CPU HOST CLOCK CONTROL ENABLED
CPU HOST FREQ 377
PCI EXPRESS 101
CIA 2 DISABLED
SYSTEM MEMORY MULTI 2.50
HI SPEED DRAM STANDARD
SYSTEM VOLT CONTROL MANUAL
DDR +0.3
PCI-EXPRESS NORM
FSB +0.2
(G)MCH +0.1
CPU VOLT 1.48

PLEASE WATCH TEMPS WHEN OVERCLOCKING
Download intel TAT and run at startup.
For your memory you will need to lower the mem devider (it tells you the freq its running at on the fly)
Unless you feel like overclocking that also. but try the separate to make sure that the cpu overclock is ok.
Only other thing is cpu voltage.
With yours i would go as far as you can with stock voltage, then just bump to get stable and continue like that.
Do not go above 1.5 volts, although I don't think you will get close to that due to heat issues.

Please let me know how you get on
Happy overclocking

[jaysback]

Any luck timbo?

[UBT - Timbo]

Any luck timbo?

Sorry.....only just seen your THREE replies....I've got some issue with Firefox and logging into this forum....

Not quite sure what's going on...when I click on "see latest messages" it logs me out ... and then resets the new messages counter to zero...so I don't know which are new messages.....

I'll take a look at the "Intel TAT" (although I already have "SpeedFan") and advise what I get.....I'm running SETI on all cores and SF currently shows me  at 42C using the Arctic Fan and the "stock" setting of x8 and 300MHz (= 2.4GHZ).

System seems quite stable BUT I've had two issues where the system shuts down with a BSOD.....some strange error code that you can't cut and paste or save anywhere.....

And I've lost 2 lots of around 12 hours (or so) of Quad crunching as a result...

regards

Tim

[jaysback]

I can see the problem there.
should be 9 x 266 @ stock.

[UBT - Timbo]

I can see the problem there.
should be 9 x 266 @ stock.

Aha....seems to be running OK....and only had the 2 issues mentioned....

Quad is on 24/7 at present....no heat issues or anything else "bad" happening...

I'll change it to 9 x 266 just to be safe for now...

regards

Tim

[jaysback]

I have a couple of water cooled G0 builds over the next 2 weekends.
One with the same motherboard as us, the other is is with a DS4.
Will let you know the voltages that i had to use on these.
The one this weekend is for dangerous pete, shame it won't be online before the end of the guantlet  :(

[Rockinfroggi]

I'm toying with the idea of joining the Quad gang but I'm in two minds as to which CPU.

Will the 12MB L2 cache of the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 make a big difference in crunching over the 4MB of the Q6600?

The Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 runs cooler and and is supposed to be around 20% faster, but around £80 more expensive.

Any comments would be greatly appreciated.


Gary.

[Temujin]

The Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 runs cooler and and is supposed to be around 20% faster, but around £80 more expensive.

Small price for a 20% increase  :D

[jaysback]

Both the kids and my rig are quads now.
Thought I would get a G0 Q6600 and get more overclock than my B3.
Wrong, brought a oem chip from novatech will only do 3350.
The newer 1333 bus chips do clock better but a word of warning.
Due to the higher bus speed they are 1 lower on the multiplier.
So mine runs standard at 9 x 266 = 2400 or 9 x 378 to get 3400.
So to get the 3600 mhz these should reach with ease they need to run 8 x 450mhz.
Not many boards will do this with a quad or if they do not for long.

Didn't know that they were 20% faster clock for clock?

Spend what you are comfortable with would probably be the best bit of advice.
The more you spend the faster it will be a standard clock speeds.

Temps for me are B3 @ 3400 on water tops @ 60c
G0 on air (scythe mine) @ 3300 62c, both with room temp 22c.
Just to give you some idea.

[Rockinfroggi]

Thanks for that Jay,

The Q9450 runs at 2.66 but due to the fact it is the newer 45nm Technology in benchmarks it ran between 20 and 40% faster than the 6600.

Obviously this does not mean it will run Boinc that much faster.

BTW, the mobo I was looking at was the Asus P5K Premium WiFi-AP.


Gary.

[Ben]

All quad cores and the new intel core 2 duo's run on the 45 nanometer technologies now, but i didn't realize the 3.2Ghz Quad is only £80 more?? Last i looked it was about £500+ !!

If you have the budget, then go for it, if not the Quad Q6600 still out does 95% of all the other CPU's out there. Personally i'd go for the Q6600, it works and saves you £80.

The cache on the processor would probably help on the bigger work units such as CPDN (i am guessing here) where it is doing a lot of calculations for a long time, and therefore i guess it could help speed it up a notch.

[Rockinfroggi]

All quad cores and the new intel core 2 duo's run on the 45 nanometer technologies now, but i didn't realize the 3.2Ghz Quad is only £80 more?? Last i looked it was about £500+ !!

If you have the budget, then go for it, if not the Quad Q6600 still out does 95% of all the other CPU's out there. Personally i'd go for the Q6600, it works and saves you £80.

The cache on the processor would probably help on the bigger work units such as CPDN (i am guessing here) where it is doing a lot of calculations for a long time, and therefore i guess it could help speed it up a notch.

Not sure where you get 3.2Ghz from as the Q9450 clock speed is 2.66 but overclockable to 3.7 with air cooling.

As for all Quads being based on the 45 nanometre technologies, that is not so, all the latest may be but the Q6600 is based on 65 nanometres and it is this that I'm comparing with.


Gary.

[Ben]

Ah my mistake, i saw the first bit 'Q9' and thought that was the processor i was saw not too long ago that was able to run @ 3.2Ghz which is where i got a tad bit confused. D'oh

[jaysback]

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx ... 499&pgno=3
Not read the whole review on them, but should give you some idea.
Hope it helps you out.

[Rockinfroggi]

Thanks for that Jay, I shall have a read up.


Gary