Opinions sought on new PC hardware upgrade
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Opinions sought on new PC hardware upgrade
Hi all,
OK, it's upgrade time for me....
I plan to get a couple of Intel Q6600 quad-core CPU's and mobo's in order to work more efficiently and crunch a few more WU's (coz my old machines just haven't got the "bottle" anymore
I've got a choice (as I don't need a monitor as I have a KVM).
I can either buy some components such as CPU, mobo, RAM and shove them into an existing suitable case + 400W PSU or two (which I have "left over"). I've got the graphics and HDD but I need a Windows OS as well. So it's either XP or Vista
So, per "system" the maths works out as (and all exclude VAT):
CPU is £150
Mobo is (say) £80
1Gb RAM is (say) £40
OS is £80 - £130 (depending on where you buy it !)
Total: £350
OR:
I can buy a nice new Dell XPS210 such as this
which, for a mere £382+VAT comes with a Core 2 Duo E4400, 250Gb HDD, 1Gb RAM, 8x DVD-Rewriter, card reader, a 1 yr warranty and Vista Home Basic. I can then sell off the E4400 and buy a Q6600 for around 150+VAT. Total spend £532 less maybe £30 if I sell the E4400. So, £500 gets me a Q6600 and new HDD and DVD-RW's.
So, is the extra £150 spend "worthwhile" for new HDD, DVD-RW and warranty???
Questions, questions ????
Any views???
regards,
Tim
OK, it's upgrade time for me....
I plan to get a couple of Intel Q6600 quad-core CPU's and mobo's in order to work more efficiently and crunch a few more WU's (coz my old machines just haven't got the "bottle" anymore
I've got a choice (as I don't need a monitor as I have a KVM).
I can either buy some components such as CPU, mobo, RAM and shove them into an existing suitable case + 400W PSU or two (which I have "left over"). I've got the graphics and HDD but I need a Windows OS as well. So it's either XP or Vista
So, per "system" the maths works out as (and all exclude VAT):
CPU is £150
Mobo is (say) £80
1Gb RAM is (say) £40
OS is £80 - £130 (depending on where you buy it !)
Total: £350
OR:
I can buy a nice new Dell XPS210 such as this
which, for a mere £382+VAT comes with a Core 2 Duo E4400, 250Gb HDD, 1Gb RAM, 8x DVD-Rewriter, card reader, a 1 yr warranty and Vista Home Basic. I can then sell off the E4400 and buy a Q6600 for around 150+VAT. Total spend £532 less maybe £30 if I sell the E4400. So, £500 gets me a Q6600 and new HDD and DVD-RW's.
So, is the extra £150 spend "worthwhile" for new HDD, DVD-RW and warranty???
Questions, questions ????
Any views???
regards,
Tim
Re: Opinions sought on new PC hardware upgrade
The only thing I'd comment on is the PSUs.UBT - Timbo wrote:I can either buy some components such as CPU, mobo, RAM and shove them into an existing suitable case + 400W PSU or two (which I have "left over").
I think you're going to need more than 400W mate
my E6600 refused to boot untill it had a 550W installed, so I'd guess a quaddy would require even more.
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Re: Opinions sought on new PC hardware upgrade
Hmmmm...hadn't thought too much about that....and the Dell I mentioned only has a 275W PSU...Temujin wrote:The only thing I'd comment on is the PSUs.UBT - Timbo wrote:I can either buy some components such as CPU, mobo, RAM and shove them into an existing suitable case + 400W PSU or two (which I have "left over").
I think you're going to need more than 400W mate
my E6600 refused to boot untill it had a 550W installed, so I'd guess a quaddy would require even more.
Mind you - it's not like I'm going to be using some gi-normous high-wattage twin-bay graphics card and multiple optical drives etc....
Think I'll need to do some more math !! Now where's that slide rule and wattage meter?
Thanks and regards,
Tim
Last edited by UBT - Timbo on Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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My DIY Q6600 box has a 430W power supply (an 85% efficient FSP unit, special offer £ 22 from Scan), and it's fine, but it has a really low-power graphics card with it. Gigabyte P35-S3 M/B at £ 65, 4GB OCZ DDR2 ram at £ 180, nVidia 6200TC, SATA HD, Scythe Ninja B heatsink + fan, 4 x 120cm fans, case @ £ 27, openSUSE 10.3 32-bit (by mistake, I'd intended to download the 64-bit version).
The Dell boxes are good but don't try to upgrade them. If I was you I'd go for the DIY approach. You might want to look at a barebones system based on the G33 chipset (P35 with graphics). Compatible with Penryn (45nm next-generation quads).
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductI ... tID=664831
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Yup - the overall "DIY" approach works for me (as I've been doing these last 20 years - my first PC was the only time I ever bought "ready-made"...).MikeMarsUK wrote:My DIY Q6600 box has a 430W power supply (an 85% efficient FSP unit, special offer £ 22 from Scan), and it's fine, but it has a really low-power graphics card with it. Gigabyte P35-S3 M/B at £ 65, 4GB OCZ DDR2 ram at £ 180, nVidia 6200TC, SATA HD, Scythe Ninja B heatsink + fan, 4 x 120cm fans, case @ £ 27, openSUSE 10.3 32-bit (by mistake, I'd intended to download the 64-bit version).
But the trouble is, I need Windows rather than Linux/Wine due to some bespoke financial accounting packages that are in use.
And, TBH, it's the acquisition of fully licensed Windows OS that screws up the DIY path....
Yup - aware that the Dell's are pretty much "dead end's" as far as upgradeability goes...!MikeMarsUK wrote:The Dell boxes are good but don't try to upgrade them. If I was you I'd go for the DIY approach. You might want to look at a barebones system based on the G33 chipset (P35 with graphics). Compatible with Penryn (45nm next-generation quads).
But my view is that they offer low cost, ease of purchase complete with OS...and although I'd still perhaps go the DIY route again at some point, it's really a time and effort consideration, esp. when you consider the (UK) cost of Windows....!
thanks and regards
Tim
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Don't know if it's of any interest, but we have a 'Quad' systems thread over at CPDN:
http://www.climateprediction.net/board/ ... php?t=5885
http://www.climateprediction.net/board/ ... php?t=5885
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"For-mi-dable " (but said in a sorrowful French accent)....UBT - Terry wrote:Hi Tim Friend of mine has just built same sort of set up and he found for all round power needs overclocking, cooling etc he has to run a 900w PSU after ive bought them bits off Gary I'm bulding one myself and I'm gonna use a 900 also..
Terry
And I thought these CPU's were getting more efficient....a Q6600 is only "95W" !
My 3GHz P4 is claimed to run at 82 Watts, and yet works perfectly well off a 450W supply.
Mind you, I'm not going to be filling the PC case with humungous "add-ins"....
And I don't really fancy the fan noise a 900 Watter would make...
So, next part of the query....any one recommend any decent fan-less power supplies ???
regards,
Tim
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Hi Mike,MikeMarsUK wrote:Don't know if it's of any interest, but we have a 'Quad' systems thread over at CPDN:
Thanks for the link - very useful info there....
Just got to draw up some plans for what I need and which direction to go in....can't decide now between a P35 board or wait for the X38 !!
regards
Tim
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Review of a power supply today which may be interesting:
http://www.hardwarelogic.com/news/136/A ... 10-15.html
Not fanless, but they couldn't hear the fan in use (21db is very quiet).
It is an 80%+ efficiency fan which for Boinc is important since it's on 24/7 (and causes less waste heat). Efficient PSUs will normally be quieter than inefficient PSUs since there is less heat to vent.
The P38 performs around the same as the P35 from all the reviews I've seen so far, so personally I'd stick with the P35.
http://www.hardwarelogic.com/news/136/A ... 10-15.html
Not fanless, but they couldn't hear the fan in use (21db is very quiet).
It is an 80%+ efficiency fan which for Boinc is important since it's on 24/7 (and causes less waste heat). Efficient PSUs will normally be quieter than inefficient PSUs since there is less heat to vent.
The P38 performs around the same as the P35 from all the reviews I've seen so far, so personally I'd stick with the P35.
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Hi Mike,MikeMarsUK wrote:Review of a power supply today which may be interesting:
http://www.hardwarelogic.com/news/136/A ... 10-15.html
Thanks for the link.
Agreed - the high efficiency is a big plus in a PSU's favour, esp. given that electricity prices (from now on) will always be going up....due to either gas/oil running out or nuclear needing to be built or dismantled
I'll keep an eye out for the Corsair (and it's Seasonic equivalent !!) and see what's available...
For now, I have some X-Power 500W PSU's which are quite quiet...but the biggest noise is coming from my Zalman CPU cooler fan - a large low speed jobby, but which still makes quite a bit of noise..
regards,
Tim
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Hi all,
I've just bitten the bullet, my credit card has been flexed and I've ordered:
1x Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R mobo
1x Q6600 (G0) CPU
1x Arctic Cooling Freezer 7
2x 1Gb Corsair PC6400 TwinX XMS2 CAS4-4-4-12
It would have been 2 lots of the above, but I thought I'd get one set up for now and next month, if things go well, either get something similar or maybe learn from any mistakes I might make, and get something slightly different.
(I'm used to building systems, having done it for the last 17 years since i got my first 486 !).
....hmmm.....I think I'll wait a little and see what I can do with my 450W power supplies first....most firms do free delivery on PSU's anyways, so I can always get a bigger one if needs be...
So, thanks for everyones advice up to now....
regards
Tim
(Cut and pasted from a different, non-relevant thread)
I've just bitten the bullet, my credit card has been flexed and I've ordered:
1x Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R mobo
1x Q6600 (G0) CPU
1x Arctic Cooling Freezer 7
2x 1Gb Corsair PC6400 TwinX XMS2 CAS4-4-4-12
It would have been 2 lots of the above, but I thought I'd get one set up for now and next month, if things go well, either get something similar or maybe learn from any mistakes I might make, and get something slightly different.
(I'm used to building systems, having done it for the last 17 years since i got my first 486 !).
....hmmm.....I think I'll wait a little and see what I can do with my 450W power supplies first....most firms do free delivery on PSU's anyways, so I can always get a bigger one if needs be...
So, thanks for everyones advice up to now....
regards
Tim
(Cut and pasted from a different, non-relevant thread)
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B*GGER
No sooner had I parted with some cash, then this happens:
Intel confirms 'Skulltrail' Quad SLI support
see here
Dang....I could really do with an 8 core PC....! Crunch them little WU's into tiny little pieces......!
regards
Tim
No sooner had I parted with some cash, then this happens:
Intel confirms 'Skulltrail' Quad SLI support
see here
Dang....I could really do with an 8 core PC....! Crunch them little WU's into tiny little pieces......!
regards
Tim
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Congratulations, should be a good system I'm jealous about the G-0 stepping.
We have an Octo-core and many-core thread over at CPDN, which might be worth browsing through.
The SkullTrail (previously called 'V8') is basically a dual Clovertown with SLI added. Can't be overclocked IIRC. It runs with very hot, expensive and slow FB-DRAM memory. Running two overclocked quads instead would be both significantly cheaper and also significantly faster (about twice as much bang for the buck).
If they do a clovertown which allows DDR2 / 3 to be used instead, it might be different...
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You don't need to be too jealous, as I'm sure the prices will come down in time...I just didn't like the idea of a "too-hot" CPU !!MikeMarsUK wrote:Congratulations, should be a good system I'm jealous about the G-0 stepping.
Once some cheaper Penryns come along, then the Q6600 will be moved down the chain to just be a cruncher cum print & net server rather than an everyday/everything PC ...
Yet more useful reading....that 80 core sounds good...!MikeMarsUK wrote:We have an Octo-core and many-core thread over at CPDN, which might be worth browsing through....
and maybe if IBM get their act together and release some CELL CPU's, then the mythical 1000 CPU mobo might actually happen....?
regards
Tim
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I would also assume you'd need a proper "unlimited" broadband account.....think of the amount of data throughput that 1,000 CPU's would generate...UBT - Rick Horn wrote:I quite fancy a 1000 CPU rig, and if I mortgaged the house, I might even be able to buy one, but could I afford to pay the electricity bill? !!!
Rick.
regards
Tim
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Well I ordered the above on Monday and it was all in stock....so it should have been packed and despatched Tuesday for delivery today....UBT - Timbo wrote:Hi all,
I've just bitten the bullet, my credit card has been flexed and I've ordered:
1x Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3R mobo
1x Q6600 (G0) CPU
1x Arctic Cooling Freezer 7
2x 1Gb Corsair PC6400 TwinX XMS2 CAS4-4-4-12...
Guess what?
It wasn't sent.....the supplier had a problem with the Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 and left it until 8pm last night to advise me that they wouldn't be delivering today....
Instead it'll leave today and arrive tomorrow....!
Hmmm.....at least they told me...albeit a wee bit late.....leaving me no option but to change my plans at the last minute and thereby upsetting some clients of mine...!
I'll have to see if it's worthwhile ordering again from them....(no names for now....in case they put a hex on the kit...or they send me a load of duff stock...)
So, I'm sorry to say, I'm missed out on at least 24 hours of Quad core crunching...hope you'll all forgive me
regards
Tim
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Hi all,
After a little bit of hassle (nothing unusual there!), my new Quad core is now crunching....!
Been a bit busy of late, even tho' SWMBO is away for the weekend....maybe that's why I'm busy !!!
I got "caught out" when trying to install the mobo drivers, as for some reason it locked up the PC....
Couldn't suss it out to start with...thought the CD might be faulty...
Then I had a brainwave...coz the Gigabyte driver disc says:
And I using a 48x CDROM drive to install the OS and the drivers....
So, swapped the CD for a DVD drive and everything worked...!
Then a quick update to my BOINC preferences to allow multi-CPU to use 4 CPUs....
Now, running some SETI WU's to see how it copes (temp-wise, mainly), before I settle down for some 24/7 stuff....
Yeeeee-HA !!
regards,
Tim
After a little bit of hassle (nothing unusual there!), my new Quad core is now crunching....!
Been a bit busy of late, even tho' SWMBO is away for the weekend....maybe that's why I'm busy !!!
I got "caught out" when trying to install the mobo drivers, as for some reason it locked up the PC....
Couldn't suss it out to start with...thought the CD might be faulty...
Then I had a brainwave...coz the Gigabyte driver disc says:
And I thought it was a CDROM.....but it wasn't....the bloomin' "CD" is a DVD !!!!!Gigabyte 6-QUAD/S-series Ultra durable 2 Motherboards Intel 3-series Utility CD
And I using a 48x CDROM drive to install the OS and the drivers....
So, swapped the CD for a DVD drive and everything worked...!
Then a quick update to my BOINC preferences to allow multi-CPU to use 4 CPUs....
Now, running some SETI WU's to see how it copes (temp-wise, mainly), before I settle down for some 24/7 stuff....
Yeeeee-HA !!
regards,
Tim
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Hi there...jaysback wrote:Nice one.
Glad you got it up and running and also built it yourself.
At least you know what you have to deal with that way.
It's not the first PC I've assembled.....but it IS the first 4-core CPU PC that I've built.....
Gonna have to get rid of some of the older bits now....
SuperMicro and Tyan mobo's, even an old MSI - all working, just now not powerful enough to BOINC with
And the RAM and some other bits...SCSI cards, Parallel port cards, and other "interesting" bits...
Someone might be interested on fleabay???
Or can just "junk" them...but as they work, seems a shame !!
regards
Tim
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If you're going to junk them, offer them on 'Freecycle'. There's usually someone who rebuilds computers and offers them to good causes.UBT - Timbo wrote:
And the RAM and some other bits...SCSI cards, Parallel port cards, and other "interesting" bits...
Someone might be interested on fleabay???
Or can just "junk" them...but as they work, seems a shame !!
regards
Tim
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Hi,jaysback wrote:Nice one.
Glad you got it up and running and also built it yourself.
At least you know what you have to deal with that way.
Some words of advice please, oh wise one.
How did you overclock your Q6600?
We have the same mobo and CPU and I'm just curious which settings you've used within the MIT settings.
Also, are you using the CIA2 function?
(see page 52-53 of the mobo manual).
regards,
Tim
Sorry about the delay in the reply, had no emails about the thread.
Your main problem will be heat, while the arctic freezer is a ok heatsink it won't cope to well with a overclocked quad.
If you google "intel TAT" and install it you will have direct readings from each core temp.
At work on a 12hr night shift atm but off the top of my head.
All the turbo setting things are off if possible or auto.
CPU v core 1.475
FSB multi @ 380 x the 9 cpu multi giving 3420.
I will post up my exact settings tomorrow, but I on the older B3 stepping so you should be able to get 3600 without having to over clock your memory if you are using pc6400 (800mhz) and the 2.00 memory divider.
Your main problem will be heat, while the arctic freezer is a ok heatsink it won't cope to well with a overclocked quad.
If you google "intel TAT" and install it you will have direct readings from each core temp.
At work on a 12hr night shift atm but off the top of my head.
All the turbo setting things are off if possible or auto.
CPU v core 1.475
FSB multi @ 380 x the 9 cpu multi giving 3420.
I will post up my exact settings tomorrow, but I on the older B3 stepping so you should be able to get 3600 without having to over clock your memory if you are using pc6400 (800mhz) and the 2.00 memory divider.
Right.
MIT settings.
CPU CLOCK 9x
CPU HOST CLOCK CONTROL ENABLED
CPU HOST FREQ 377
PCI EXPRESS 101
CIA 2 DISABLED
SYSTEM MEMORY MULTI 2.50
HI SPEED DRAM STANDARD
SYSTEM VOLT CONTROL MANUAL
DDR +0.3
PCI-EXPRESS NORM
FSB +0.2
(G)MCH +0.1
CPU VOLT 1.48
PLEASE WATCH TEMPS WHEN OVERCLOCKING
Download intel TAT and run at startup.
For your memory you will need to lower the mem devider (it tells you the freq its running at on the fly)
Unless you feel like overclocking that also. but try the separate to make sure that the cpu overclock is ok.
Only other thing is cpu voltage.
With yours i would go as far as you can with stock voltage, then just bump to get stable and continue like that.
Do not go above 1.5 volts, although I don't think you will get close to that due to heat issues.
Please let me know how you get on
Happy overclocking
MIT settings.
CPU CLOCK 9x
CPU HOST CLOCK CONTROL ENABLED
CPU HOST FREQ 377
PCI EXPRESS 101
CIA 2 DISABLED
SYSTEM MEMORY MULTI 2.50
HI SPEED DRAM STANDARD
SYSTEM VOLT CONTROL MANUAL
DDR +0.3
PCI-EXPRESS NORM
FSB +0.2
(G)MCH +0.1
CPU VOLT 1.48
PLEASE WATCH TEMPS WHEN OVERCLOCKING
Download intel TAT and run at startup.
For your memory you will need to lower the mem devider (it tells you the freq its running at on the fly)
Unless you feel like overclocking that also. but try the separate to make sure that the cpu overclock is ok.
Only other thing is cpu voltage.
With yours i would go as far as you can with stock voltage, then just bump to get stable and continue like that.
Do not go above 1.5 volts, although I don't think you will get close to that due to heat issues.
Please let me know how you get on
Happy overclocking
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Sorry.....only just seen your THREE replies....I've got some issue with Firefox and logging into this forum....jaysback wrote:Any luck timbo?
Not quite sure what's going on...when I click on "see latest messages" it logs me out ... and then resets the new messages counter to zero...so I don't know which are new messages.....
I'll take a look at the "Intel TAT" (although I already have "SpeedFan") and advise what I get.....I'm running SETI on all cores and SF currently shows me at 42C using the Arctic Fan and the "stock" setting of x8 and 300MHz (= 2.4GHZ).
System seems quite stable BUT I've had two issues where the system shuts down with a BSOD.....some strange error code that you can't cut and paste or save anywhere.....
And I've lost 2 lots of around 12 hours (or so) of Quad crunching as a result...
regards
Tim
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I'm toying with the idea of joining the Quad gang but I'm in two minds as to which CPU.
Will the 12MB L2 cache of the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 make a big difference in crunching over the 4MB of the Q6600?
The Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 runs cooler and and is supposed to be around 20% faster, but around £80 more expensive.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Gary.
Will the 12MB L2 cache of the Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 make a big difference in crunching over the 4MB of the Q6600?
The Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 runs cooler and and is supposed to be around 20% faster, but around £80 more expensive.
Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
Gary.
Both the kids and my rig are quads now.
Thought I would get a G0 Q6600 and get more overclock than my B3.
Wrong, brought a oem chip from novatech will only do 3350.
The newer 1333 bus chips do clock better but a word of warning.
Due to the higher bus speed they are 1 lower on the multiplier.
So mine runs standard at 9 x 266 = 2400 or 9 x 378 to get 3400.
So to get the 3600 mhz these should reach with ease they need to run 8 x 450mhz.
Not many boards will do this with a quad or if they do not for long.
Didn't know that they were 20% faster clock for clock?
Spend what you are comfortable with would probably be the best bit of advice.
The more you spend the faster it will be a standard clock speeds.
Temps for me are B3 @ 3400 on water tops @ 60c
G0 on air (scythe mine) @ 3300 62c, both with room temp 22c.
Just to give you some idea.
Thought I would get a G0 Q6600 and get more overclock than my B3.
Wrong, brought a oem chip from novatech will only do 3350.
The newer 1333 bus chips do clock better but a word of warning.
Due to the higher bus speed they are 1 lower on the multiplier.
So mine runs standard at 9 x 266 = 2400 or 9 x 378 to get 3400.
So to get the 3600 mhz these should reach with ease they need to run 8 x 450mhz.
Not many boards will do this with a quad or if they do not for long.
Didn't know that they were 20% faster clock for clock?
Spend what you are comfortable with would probably be the best bit of advice.
The more you spend the faster it will be a standard clock speeds.
Temps for me are B3 @ 3400 on water tops @ 60c
G0 on air (scythe mine) @ 3300 62c, both with room temp 22c.
Just to give you some idea.
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All quad cores and the new intel core 2 duo's run on the 45 nanometer technologies now, but i didn't realize the 3.2Ghz Quad is only £80 more?? Last i looked it was about £500+ !!
If you have the budget, then go for it, if not the Quad Q6600 still out does 95% of all the other CPU's out there. Personally i'd go for the Q6600, it works and saves you £80.
The cache on the processor would probably help on the bigger work units such as CPDN (i am guessing here) where it is doing a lot of calculations for a long time, and therefore i guess it could help speed it up a notch.
If you have the budget, then go for it, if not the Quad Q6600 still out does 95% of all the other CPU's out there. Personally i'd go for the Q6600, it works and saves you £80.
The cache on the processor would probably help on the bigger work units such as CPDN (i am guessing here) where it is doing a lot of calculations for a long time, and therefore i guess it could help speed it up a notch.
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Ben wrote:All quad cores and the new intel core 2 duo's run on the 45 nanometer technologies now, but i didn't realize the 3.2Ghz Quad is only £80 more?? Last i looked it was about £500+ !!
If you have the budget, then go for it, if not the Quad Q6600 still out does 95% of all the other CPU's out there. Personally i'd go for the Q6600, it works and saves you £80.
The cache on the processor would probably help on the bigger work units such as CPDN (i am guessing here) where it is doing a lot of calculations for a long time, and therefore i guess it could help speed it up a notch.
Not sure where you get 3.2Ghz from as the Q9450 clock speed is 2.66 but overclockable to 3.7 with air cooling.
As for all Quads being based on the 45 nanometre technologies, that is not so, all the latest may be but the Q6600 is based on 65 nanometres and it is this that I'm comparing with.
Gary.
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx ... 499&pgno=3
Not read the whole review on them, but should give you some idea.
Hope it helps you out.
Not read the whole review on them, but should give you some idea.
Hope it helps you out.
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- Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 12:00 am