New to the Forums

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:06 pm

But not new to the team.....so, hey everyone

UBT - Rick Horn · Post by **UBT - Rick Horn** » Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:26 pm

Hi Kieron, and a very warm welcome to the forum.

Rick.

Post by **UBT-mark3346** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:27 am

Welcome

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:35 pm

Welcome to UBT forums Kieron.

Feel free to have a wander around...and if you need any help, there's a few regular UBT members who can help you out

regards
Tim

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:22 pm

Thanks for the welcomes

Edit: Also, what projects would you recommend I run and help crunch? I currently use Seta@Home, Einstein, Rosetta and LHC....but I don't know what else I could go for, as there are so many.

Therefore your recommendations would be much appreciated

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:16 pm

Kieron J. Barr wrote:Thanks for the welcomes

Edit: Also, what projects would you recommend I run and help crunch? I currently use Seta@Home, Einstein, Rosetta and LHC....but I don't know what else I could go for, as there are so many.

Therefore your recommendations would be much appreciated

Hi Kieron,

Based on my recent results (following the installation of a shiny (but s/h) GTX560 GPU), I would say it depends on a few things, such as:

1) What hardware and OS are you running?

2) Do you just want credits in which case if you have a GPU as part of the setup, then there are some projects that give out lots of credits.

3) Alternatively, if you want to crunch data with specific reasons in mind (such as helping medical research projects or helping to find prime numbers, etc) then some projects will be glad of the help.

regards
Tim

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:24 pm

UBT - Timbo wrote:
Kieron J. Barr wrote:Thanks for the welcomes

Edit: Also, what projects would you recommend I run and help crunch? I currently use Seta@Home, Einstein, Rosetta and LHC....but I don't know what else I could go for, as there are so many.

Therefore your recommendations would be much appreciated
Hi Kieron,

Based on my recent results (following the installation of a shiny (but s/h) GTX560 GPU), I would say it depends on a few things, such as:

1) What hardware and OS are you running?

2) Do you just want credits in which case if you have a GPU as part of the setup, then there are some projects that give out lots of credits.

3) Alternatively, if you want to crunch data with specific reasons in mind (such as helping medical research projects or helping to find prime numbers, etc) then some projects will be glad of the help.

regards
Tim

Alright, well I am running 64bit Windows 7. I have an older Nvidia GT 520 card. CPU is an i3 core running at 3.30Ghz

As for credits, I don't want them just to brag, I actually want to help out as well. So yeah, like helping research etc.

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:13 pm

Kieron J. Barr wrote:Alright, well I am running 64bit Windows 7. I have an older Nvidia GT 520 card. CPU is an i3 core running at 3.30Ghz

As for credits, I don't want them just to brag, I actually want to help out as well. So yeah, like helping research etc.

Hi Kieron,

The GT520 does have CUDA capabilities, so you can put the GPU to good use

So, on the "research" side, SETI, GPUGRID and WCG all support GPU's and hence can crunch data faster than a standard CPU. So take a look at those and see how they "fit".

Otherwise, check out Fightmalaria and MalariaControl, as both these projects seek to rid the world of Malaria.....and hence are worthy of your consideration.

The above can all be added via the "Tools > Add Project..." menu in BOINC Manager.

And if you do go ahead with these, it might be an idea to check which Nvidia driver you are using as some projects might need the latest drivers installed.

Hope this helps (and I'm sure other forum members will also add their suggestions

)

regards
Tim

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:14 pm

Thanks, I will certainly look into those

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:34 pm

Also, I have connected WCG yesterday, or the day before, and it hasn't given me any work units yet, is this normal?

I just don't want to be wasting crunching time because I have overlooked something

EDIT - Belay that, it has just downloaded some.

Zydor · Post by **Zydor** » Fri Mar 28, 2014 7:58 pm

Welcome to the Mad-House :toothy10:

Happy Crunching :toothy2:

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:19 am

Thanks....getting crunching again is always a good thing.

Well, not when I got some WUs from GPUGrid the other day that were going to take 48 hours to finish :/ lol

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:57 am

Kieron J. Barr wrote:Thanks....getting crunching again is always a good thing.

Well, not when I got some WUs from GPUGrid the other day that were going to take 48 hours to finish :/ lol

Hi Kieron,

On those projects where there are WU's available for both CPU and GPU, if you check the "Preferences" on your project "account" page, you can set preference to allow or disallow specific tasks.

So if you prefer shorter CPU WU's and (say) GPUGRID "CPU" tasks take a long time, then you can disallow them (on the GPUGRID prefs) but yet still allow GPUGRID "GPU" WU's.

That way you can be more choosy as to which WU's your rig is more suited to and you can have CPU tasks from one project and GPU tasks from another.

regards
Tim

Edited to correct typo and to revise last 2 para's

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:06 pm

Hi,

I tried that, really hoping it would work....sadly, it still gave me the 48 hour WU's....even though the description thing tells me it is the 'short run of 2-3 hours' WU

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:25 am

Kieron J. Barr wrote:Hi,

I tried that, really hoping it would work....sadly, it still gave me the 48 hour WU's....even though the description thing tells me it is the 'short run of 2-3 hours' WU

Hi Kieron

Looking at your stats on GPUGRID website here:

http://www.gpugrid.net/results.php?hostid=170819

I can see you've had some (short) CUDA GPU WU's but some have been aborted

I think that to begin with you have to be a bit patient and allow BOINC Manager time to get some WU's and to work through them. Some WU's do appear at first to have long run-times, but it takes a few tasks to complete and then the time shown will settle down.

I'm also not sure how good a GT520 GPU is, in comparison to say my GTX560, so it might be that whatever GPU credits you get, should be regarded as a "bonus" and your main work will be more CPU-based.

Also, the latest Nvidia driver is 335.28 and you have 335.23 - I'm not sure if upgrading the driver will help on the GPU work timescale.

regards
Tim

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:42 am

Yeah, I got the errors on some...not sure why.

The aborted ones were the ones that came up with a 48 hour estimated time, with only a few days for the deadline. So I knew they would never get completed (I don't run my PC all day and night)

I know the 520 is an older card...I would like to upgrade it, but I am not exactly flush with money at the moment, so that will have to wait for a while.

Another driver already? I only just updated it! lol

Edit - In fact, I just went to the Nvidia site, and the driver it shows me is still the 335.23 one.

UBT - Rick Horn · Post by **UBT - Rick Horn** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:41 am

Any work unit that has already been started before the deadline, will be honoured on completion of the unit.

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:45 am

Oh....and here was me thinking it would just automatically cancel. Oops.

Zydor · Post by **Zydor** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:59 am

Short Explanation
Difficult to know from a distance if this is a factor with you, but worth noting anyway if the topic is new to you.

A factor that often catches many .... the long early estimates are in the nature of the beast, and little can be done to avoid it .... just need to be aware of how it works. Let it run - it'll be fine, estimates will correct themselves, its not as crazy as seems on first sight. Like many things with BOINC - the old saying, "patience is virtue" is very true.

The explanation below will never overcome the effect of lower powered GPUs, but its a factor miss-understood by many resulting in an unnecessary orgy of deleting WUs when that was not needed.

Longer Explanation
When BOINC first loads up a new set of WUs (or does a restart after resetting the client .exe etc), it goes through a learning curve. It has very little to go on in terms of estimating crunch times, because it has to cope with unknown machines, new hardware, new software thrown at it at no notice, restarts blah blah - there are no "Base Tables" to refer to in setting the calculation estimates, there are - literally - an infinite number of permutations running into millions etc. Forget simplistic lookup tables - that's not happening, utterly impossible.

To get round this, there is a massively complex algorithm, that at its core is a clever piece of software. It will take each "new" type of WU, and "learn" from past crunching, the estimates getting better and better over time. It can be circa a day before you see estimates returning to sanity, other times it can be a few days. Meanwhile it shows crazy time estimates for short WUs of long hours sometimes days, and estimates of days sometimes weeks for longer WUs. Patience is a virtue with this.

Key thing is let it get on with it - don't fight it, because you will lose rofl. It will settle down, just needs time to learn and get the averages flowing properly. Its not as simple as it first looks, but BOINC does the job well - its a clever piece of software.

Whilst its "learning" what you are throwing at it, and the hardware you have - and as a general rule of thumb anyway - never take the second figure (time left left to complete) as gospel, that will always be pretty much screwed, until it has gone through the learning process, even then it can be a bit flakey.

Always use the first figure (time taken to complete so far) as your base line. So if as an easy example it shows time taken so far as (say) 5 mins, and shows 33% complete, then extrapolate to 100%, and it should take 15mins per WU in that example - and there is therefore 10 mins left to go before that one completes.

Meanwhile the apparently wacky timings of hours/days/weeks in the second column will rapidly diminish as it "learns" from past crunching. Until it goes through that process - its usually pretty quick - usually hours, sometimes a couple of days; treat the second figure like you would a cheap WalMart watch ... (!) ..... or for the ex-military .... a cheap NAAFI watch (!)...... both with deep suspicion initially on first use.

[Showing my age there - if you don't understand "NAAFI" - Google it

]

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:47 pm

Ok, well thanks for that....I will just let them run and allow it to sort itself out then

And yeah, I know what NAAFI is

Being an Air Cadet for many years meant I saw a few RAF bases in my time, and that's where I picked that up from

Zydor · Post by **Zydor** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:09 pm

There is a slight "Gotcha" with it ...... initially when it starts the learning process, even extrapolating the "time completed so far" may well give wacky times.

Usually takes around 20-30% of WU run time to - initially - start to nail the timings. So whilst its still worth going through this from get-go, just bare in mind that even with "time completed so far" route, it can be a bit flakey.

Once its done circa 20-30% of a WU its pretty well nailed the estimate on the first figure - just be suspicious on that first column when initially only done 20-30% complete. Over time that first column - very quickly in fact - shows reality.

All sounds horribly complex .... it isn't, honestly (!) .... its a doddle once you twig whats going on. Its just "wordy wordy" to explain

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:34 pm

It's alright, I understand what you are trying to explain...so it's all good

As you say, if they have no basis point of reference to form an estimate, then the initial WU's will give crazy times for a while.

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:19 pm

Kieron J. Barr wrote:.....Another driver already? I only just updated it! lol

Edit - In fact, I just went to the Nvidia site, and the driver it shows me is still the 335.23 one.

Hi Kieron

I just checked and in fact it's the Win XP drivers that are now 335.28 - you have a Win 7 PC and that is still on 335.23, so no need to update - sorry about that !! (I'd assumed they changed all the different Win drivers at the same time).

regards
Tim

Kieron J. Barr · Post by **Kieron J. Barr** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:22 pm

That's alright Tim, no need to apologise....but likewise, I would have thought they all updated at the same time as well.

Zydor · Post by **Zydor** » Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:39 pm

Hmmmm ..... had a thought .....

Many reading the above will be unaware of the true nature of the NAAFI, even though inside the Armed Forces its a unique and remarkable institution. Generally speaking a soldier - as a euphemism - both loves to Hate it (keeping up "Street Cred" demands such a reaction), and in private Hates to Love it (because you are supposed to Hate it rofl ....)

They do a remarkable job for the Armed Forces (unfunded by the MOD Budget as such in that it has to stand on its own economic feet - purely civilian organisation run from within the MOD [sort of rofl .... its kind of a Hybrid in commercial terms]).

As the Folk Law goes, keep your eyes open at the end of a an assault on the enemy location for the "NAAFI Wagon". There is more truth to that statement than many realise - its stunning where and when these guys turn up, from full blown modern supermarket in Germany and UK, to a fully camouflaged "NAAFI Wagon" whilst on Operations aka the Jungles of the then Burma, NI, Middle East, Falklands .... where ever.

Its a remarkable British Institution. Take a peak at (and do take the time to click to expand each category and read them):

http://www.naafi.co.uk/history

My Father was a Chief Petty Officer NAAFI during WW2, primarily on Atlantic Convoys and the Sheldt Minesweeping Operation leading up to the Port of Antwerp - providing NAAFI "goodies" from a small personal Locker on Destroyer's and Minesweepers. During the Falklands War, a pic of the QE2's Naafi Manager manning an air defence machine Gun was plastered all over the Media - especially The Sun - during the Falkland Sound Battle with Argentinian Air Force. Dad rang me and said ..... "there ya go, us NAAFI Manager's have their uses" .... rofl

...... that's my street cred blown .... praising NAAFI ..... sheeeesh