BOINC Team Hijacked

melter65 · Post by **melter65** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:16 am

Every team member please take the time to read this thread and understand the implications this has on distributed computing all over the world!

We need to be vigilant, Capt. Timbo! :evil:

UBT - mickyb69 · Post by **UBT - mickyb69** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:38 am

OMFG

Post by **UBT-mark3346** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:17 am

Excellent move, only themselves to blame - no one on the team noticed for 5 months that the team had gone, team founder had 2 months to respond to the e-mail and PM and didn't bother, yet now the team suddenly matters what a load of whingers they are (not just about this either).
Someone tried it on with us a while ago, team founder (good job) responded, no problem.
Might be an idea to make sure the odd project where we have a different founder is brought in line with the rest of them though.

These comments are a personal opinion and not in anyway meant to represent those of this or any other team

vaio · Post by **vaio** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:49 pm

Very surprised and disappointed with that reply.

Far as I am concerned a team could be inactive forever and their team/stats should remain in place.

It's a disgrace and brings the whole of dc into disrepute.

If you can't see the implcations of this you obviously don't understand dc or the folk that run it.

Extremely disappointed.

Post by **UBT-mark3346** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:04 pm

vaio wrote:Very surprised and disappointed with that reply.

Far as I am concerned a team could be inactive forever and their team/stats should remain in place.

It's a disgrace and brings the whole of dc into disrepute.

If you can't see the implcations of this you obviously don't understand dc or the folk that run it.

Extremely disappointed.

It was a somewhat tongue in cheek reply, this is not damaging to the public perception of Boinc unlike the trojan installations of CPDN and I certainly agree that if a team has shut up shop then they should be able to "lock" their stats if they wish.

However this was an active team and although they had thrown their toys out of the pram on this project some of them were still crunching it. All the team founder had to do was decline the request for a transfer within 2 months of it being made. Happened here, no big deal as the request was declined, it's only become an issue because the founder did not respond.

That said it would not take much to make the system harder to abuse - sending the team transfer notification to more than just the founder for instance should stop it being missed/overlooked.

Biggest shame is that the person who walked off with the team went to all the trouble of figuring out how to get the credits for his team rather than doing something of value for Boinc.

These comments are a personal opinion and not in anyway meant to represent those of this or any other team

Darren · Post by **Darren** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:05 pm

Unhappy that this could happen.
I rarely check to see that my credits are going to the team, why should I. I signed up to UBT and assume I am still a member until told otherwise.

We need to check all projects because recently we have others that are controling the team on other projects
I think Halifax is in control of some and we hardly ever hear from him.

Doubt BOINC can sort it out though. Wonder if they keep a history of account managment features.

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:19 pm

melter65 wrote:Every team member please take the time to read this thread and understand the implications this has on distributed computing all over the world!

We need to be vigilant, Capt. Timbo! :evil:

Hi,

No worries.....

I make sure that my email account is always monitored so if at any time, I get a founder change request, I reply straight away, which ensures the continuity of the team.

I sincerely hope that someone on the Rosetta forum has emailed Dr David Anderson about this issue....and if they haven't then I've just done it anyways !!

regards

Tim

NaRyan · Post by **NaRyan** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:29 pm

Is a bit of a weird thing, dunno how you cannot notice your team changing.
Then again perhaps not everyone keeps an eye on their Boinc stats, I suppose a lot of Boinc users are mostly just install and forget users :roll:

Still this one got me "Funny I hadn't noticed Rosetta and my 3,006,141 points missing from my sig before...", how the heck can you not notice that!!!

Only problem i have noticed with a UBT team is the F@H info, as it lists the team page as being http://www.modusa.co.uk/uk-boinc-team.html

Dunno who the team founder is for F@H?

UBT - Nogbo · Post by **UBT - Nogbo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:49 pm

While you have to feel sorry for the members of this team doesn't this show that there needs to be a change in the rules governing teams?

If I understand it correctly (and please correct me if I am wrong), it would appear that only the team owner is notified if someone tries to change ownership of a team. Other members of a team know nothing of this event.

Perhaps it should be the case where if someone tries to change ownership of a team, then every member of that team should be emailed of the details, if only to alert everyone as to what is going on.

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:10 pm

UBT - Nogbo wrote:While you have to feel sorry for the members of this team doesn't this show that there needs to be a change in the rules governing teams?

If I understand it correctly (and please correct me if I am wrong), it would appear that only the team owner is notified if someone tries to change ownership of a team. Other members of a team know nothing of this event.

Perhaps it should be the case where if someone tries to change ownership of a team, then every member of that team should be emailed of the details, if only to alert everyone as to what is going on.

Hi,

I think it might be better if BOINC would allow "admins" for the team, sort of one step down from the "founder"....

This would then save the problem (say for UBT) of over 1,850 "team members" all being advised that someone (else) wanted to take control of the team....

It's bad enough having to deal with my existing email workload - I can't imagine getting 1,850 emails from members who think their team is going to be taken over by someone else.....:0)

regards,

Tim

Post by **UBT - Timbo** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:13 pm

NaRyan wrote:Is a bit of a weird thing, dunno how you cannot notice your team changing.
Then again perhaps not everyone keeps an eye on their Boinc stats, I suppose a lot of Boinc users are mostly just install and forget users :roll:

Still this one got me "Funny I hadn't noticed Rosetta and my 3,006,141 points missing from my sig before...", how the heck can you not notice that!!!

Their team couldn't have been that ACTIVE, if no-one noticed what was going on...!

NaRyan wrote: Only problem i have noticed with a UBT team is the F@H info, as it lists the team page as being http://www.modusa.co.uk/uk-boinc-team.html
Dunno who the team founder is for F@H?

I'll take a look at that.... - that URL is one of mine, so maybe I didn't update it...? I haven't crunched for F@H in ages....so I will see what's going on...thanks for the advice...!

regards

Tim

melter65 · Post by **melter65** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:13 pm

Good call, Nogbo. Another way would be that if the founder doesn't reply then to contact the highest contributing team member who is still active and see if they oppose the takeover!

Temujin · Post by **Temujin** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:14 pm

UBT - Nogbo wrote:Perhaps it should be the case where if someone tries to change ownership of a team, then every member of that team should be emailed of the details, if only to alert everyone as to what is going on.

Thats a good idea, emailed and PM'd.
How about also creating either a Team Founder Change message board or thread on each project and auto posting in there that a request has been made by user xyz with reminders every week.
In other words, make the request as public as possible.

Temujin · Post by **Temujin** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:17 pm

UBT - Timbo wrote:I think it might be better if BOINC would allow "admins" for the team, sort of one step down from the "founder"....

That's already available, Seti supports it.

Nite Owl · Post by **Nite Owl** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 4:58 pm

NaRyan wrote:
Still this one got me "Funny I hadn't noticed Rosetta and my 3,006,141 points missing from my sig before...", how the heck can you not notice that!!!

Simple to understand, even for the most biased of minds... I rarely use a Stats image sig, but when I do I'm interested in how I'm doing on my current projects... not one I'm no longer running... Capice?

Nough said...

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:51 pm

Boinc Manager?

NaRyan · Post by **NaRyan** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:35 am

Nite Owl wrote:
NaRyan wrote:
Still this one got me "Funny I hadn't noticed Rosetta and my 3,006,141 points missing from my sig before...", how the heck can you not notice that!!!
Simple to understand, even for the most biased of minds... I rarely use a Stats image sig, but when I do I'm interested in how I'm doing on my current projects... not one I'm no longer running... Capice?
Nough said...

Ahh ok

Sorry no disrespect intended.
I myself could not care less about 1 of my projects credits if they fell off the face of the planet, however if they were to be stolen by another user/team then I would make a fuss.

I'm glad to hear you got your credits back to the correct team

carl.h · Post by **carl.h** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:51 am

Excellent move, only themselves to blame - no one on the team noticed for 5 months that the team had gone, team founder had 2 months to respond to the e-mail and PM and didn't bother, yet now the team suddenly matters what a load of whingers they are (not just about this either).
Someone tried it on with us a while ago, team founder (good job) responded, no problem.
Might be an idea to make sure the odd project where we have a different founder is brought in line with the rest of them though.

These comments are a personal opinion and not in anyway meant to represent those of this or any other team

I am deeply disappointed at this post, it shows no empathy at all. Let`s try to answer some of the points.

The team founder had changed ISP`s and his original email address did not exist anymore. We had 4-5 small crunchers still on the team there, the quiet don`t look at forums or stats type as most teams have. Our founder is over 60 years old at Rosetta and is not 24/7 on the internet as some younger members.

The Team and it`s name has alway`s mattered else why would anyone whinge ? Talking of which is the fact you called Teddies a load of whingers and then inferred they did it a lot.An insult and tantamount to a flame which I believe is against most forum rules ?

The whinging has hopefully closed a loophole which many teams had suffered. We do not see it as whinging but as an attempt at fair and just play which is reasonable in any field.

The disclaimer you put after your remarks is laughable after all what is your nick ? Of course your remarks will be thought as representaive in some way of your team. People will say Mark of UBT said.........

Howether I can see that others are not of the same mind in this thread and we thank them for the empathy.

I apologise to the members here that my first post in your home was not as I`d have liked.

Good luck & happy crunching.

Carl

carl.h · Post by **carl.h** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:08 am

It appears this Czech team may have taken over some 50 odd teams in the same way. No one appeared to have received an email informing them of the change of founder.

All,

I was informed yesterday about the problem over at Rosetta@Home described here http://boinc.bakerlab.org/rosetta/fo...ad.php?id=4238

where a user (Barbar) basically initiated a founder transfer request from the Teddies team and after the default 2 months and no reply he was given the team, where he promptly renamed it to Space Family and 'expelled' all the users.

Today, I find it has happened to one of my own teams. The Free-DC has had this exact same thing done to it over at NanoHive@Home as well as at Ralph@Home. Looking through my database I see that there is 59 entries for Space Family in the teams, a more detailed analysis would be required to see just how many of these are hijacked. As I was the founder for the Free-DC team at NanoHive I can categorically say I have never received any email requesting the transfer.

It seems to me that this is a pretty big can of worms that has been opened and exploited. I understand the reasons for changing the software to allow founder transfers in extreme cases, but I feel that there has got to be some due diligence made surely. Emails can be lost for many different reasons, mostly due to spam filters and such so it cannot be relied upon as a safe mechanism.

If this continues I can see some serious dents put into the credibility of the BOINC software and creaks and rents in the whole boinc wide community.

And yes, I realise that Barbar may get this email too as he is a founder.

Phil Chapman ( Bok )

Post by **UBT-mark3346** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:09 am

carl.h wrote:. Let`s try to answer some of the points.

The team founder had changed ISP`s and his original email address did not exist anymore..... Our founder is over 60 years old at Rosetta... is not 24/7 on the internet .

....fact you called Teddies a load of whingers and then inferred they did it a lot.An insult and tantamount to a flame which I believe is against most forum rules ?

Carl

Team founder changed ISP.....That is nothing to do with the project
Founder over 60 years old.......and? does that make them automatically less able I certainly hope not or thats a lot of us in trouble soon.
Not on the internet 24/7......No need to be, once a month would have done

I have no idea what a "flame" is and no insult was intended but to not notice for months when this had happened and for it suddenly to be really important struck me as whinging (ie complaining, justified or not)--as far as I am aware (apologies if wrong) the team did not like wu size at Rosetta and had more or less pulled out of the project some time ago.

No harm was done to the science of the project.
I believe no individuals stats were changed (not the signatures but the actual project record of credit)

Yes I agree what happenend was wrong and the system should have more safeguards which following your "whinging" it looks like it will (Don't you have a good old whinge about the weather or what's on the telly sometime..no big deal)

UBT - Terry · Post by **UBT - Terry** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 10:07 am

carl.h · Post by **carl.h** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:03 am

Whinge

To complain or protest, especially in an annoying or persistent manner.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Being British and only down the road from Herts, I moan about the weather but not annoyingly.

I thank you for your reply UBT- mark3346, unfortunately I feel it is best to end this communication between ourselves here. You`re obviously quite new to crunching whilst we`ve been doing it together some 8 years and have a much more reasoned, fair minded approach.

I thank UBT for their hospitality. I shall of course ask my team not to reply to this thread as it is only going one way which is why I stated mark flamed.

Thank you and good night.

Post by **UBT-mark3346** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:17 am

Hope you or nite owl check your PMs before you go.

Nite Owl · Post by **Nite Owl** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:50 pm

UBT-mark3346 wrote: as far as I am aware (apologies if wrong) the team did not like wu size at Rosetta and had more or less pulled out of the project some time ago.

I reckon it's time you get on with your apology then, because that is simply not true.. I was the only member that had trouble with bandwidth, due to the obnoxiously huge size of the download/upload W/U... I was using a satellite ISP at the time and they kept cutting me off for 24 hour periods due to exceeding their FAP (Fair Access Policy). Anytime now would be a good time for the "apology"...

Nite Owl · Post by **Nite Owl** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:59 pm

UBT-mark3346 wrote:Hope you or nite owl check your PMs before you go.

Read and answered... :)

Post by **UBT-mark3346** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:49 pm

I apologise for incorrectly saying team members left because of wu size when they left for other reasons, I had read part of a thread about wu size then the one below and wrongly assumed the bust up on the boards was about the wu size.

From the Rosetta boards

Me or Carl H and neither of us did that.....what is making 'us' a little paranoid is that some of our team members had quite a big bust-up with some on the boards here and stopped crunching here ....but did not leave the team...the team is spread across a number of projects.....our suspision is that the team was deliberately 'removed' as a punishment......if not, there is a serious 'flaw' in your data/database and god know what else is affected....can we 'trust' any of your data if that is the case..

I crunch with the hope it may be of benefit to science---the points, forums and team (sorry guys) are secondary, otherwise I would not have so much time on the credit vacuum that is WCG. I would be very unlikely to stop a project because of comments on their forum but I must admit I hardly ever visit them so don't know how bad/nasty it got.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:18 pm

What is done, is done and nothing can be done to undo it, therefore lets put this (what i can only describe as 'rift' between certain members) to a stop. We are all hear to crunch for our team, and having allies as well as friends is surly better?

Good to see other teams visiting the forums.

The Student Ambassador! :P

UBT - mickyb69 · Post by **UBT - mickyb69** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:18 pm

PMFL :lol:
Flamed lololololololol ...Can't we just have a good old proper scuffle ..
eg .My dads bigger than yours !

I lost 1300 credits on Nqueens when they cleaned up the server but you don't see me complaining .

But come on ...6 months before ya noticed :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

UBT - Rick Horn · Post by **UBT - Rick Horn** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:09 pm

Regarding the recent debacle of founder changes, one way around it would be if the founder could nominate a deputy founder of his or her choice.
Should the founder not respond within the 2 month period, the deputy would be automatically informed of the situation, and the deputy would then be given another 2 months to reply before any founder changes were allowed.

Clearly, this would have to come from BOINC, and, although the system would not be perfect, I think it would be a fairly simple solution to implement, and much better than the current system.

Sir Cracked of the Mind · Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:07 am

Flames!!!

:diabloanifire:

Childrens games, back in the old days we had real flame wars, I remember on one occsions 48,000 people were burnt to dust by just one cutting remark alone.

get over it!!! there's more important things in life than stupid computers and BOINC..

People die for the want of a cup of water, and all you can manage is to bitch slap each other over an imagined insult.

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