Disparity in credits awarded

Anything "BOINC" specific can be commented on here...such as Project news and announcements etc. Also: any problems with BOINC or maybe you have found something interesting, tell us about it. Chat about the various 3rd party client applications used for some of the projects such as optimised clients.
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Kevy
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:00 am

Disparity in credits awarded

Post by Kevy »

I have four projects running on windows 7 64bit machine, Seti, einstein, CPDN and WCG. All are set for equal preference (25% each).

I've noticed that my credits are way higher for Einstein than any of the others except seti, which still falls some distance behind. CPDN and WCG are almost flat lines at the bottom of the graph. Can this difference just be put down to Einstein and Seti using GPU, or is there other factors involved?
(Sorry if this is a dumb question, been using BOINC since 1999 on and off, but only recently started to get interested in the 'inner workings')
Kev
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Zydor
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:00 am

Post by Zydor »

The Black Art of BOINC Credits - will forever be a source of comment, propaganda, inuendo, competance, incompetance, hoax, nightmare - pick the favourite phrase rofl :)

GPU based WUs will always, invariably, where they are actually running, pick up way more credits than CPU WUs.  They don't get "special" rating for credits, they just complete the WUs faster, and therefore stack up credits more than CPUs.

Some Projects are not suitable for GPU WUs due to the current state of the two kinds of software for them (CUDA for NVidia, and Accelerated Parallel Processing [APP for short] for AMD aka the old ATI).  These tend to be scientific projects, where the WU needs more than straightforward maths ability - Milky Way would seem to be scientific, and it is of course, but its application is a straightforward mathematical model).  

Where any kind of esoteric, uncharted territory kind of model is run (CPDN, Medical Models, Quantum Mechanics [eg AQUA Project], its hard sometimes to put together a GPU app. It will depend on what is being modelled and the facilities inside the Software to design the WU (successful ones include GPUGRID medical models). Its decidely dubious whether or not a GPU app for BOINC can be put togther at all at times, from the perspective of the time available to volunteer BOINC programmers, University or Commercial based or not.

At a pure CPU level only, its still at a Projects descretion as to the level of credits it gives.  Most tend to reign in stupid CPU credit levels as its counter productuve in the long run to artificially boost numbers.  CPU (and in theory GPU) credit levels are meant to be measured against a standing reference model stated by BOINC.  Pinch of salt on the latter, usually starts that way, but most Projects end up tempering the final credit outcome a little more by their own needs and priorities.


Bottom line - GPU apps are 10 to 100 times faster than CPU apps, but its not always possible to design one for a Project. Therefore you will see large overall all up credit total differences with many projects.

Regards
Zy
Kevy
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:00 am

Post by Kevy »

Thanks Zydor, that clarifies things a lot for me. I just wish WCG used GPU, then I could satisfy my want for credits AND my ethical ideals :)

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Zydor
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:00 am

Post by Zydor »

Re ethics etc - GPUGRID would be a good GPU Project to go for, as long as you have NVidia (will not be an AMD GPU app there for the foreseeable future), they do lots of original medical modelling research into various deseases - its run by Barcelona University.

Regards
Zy
Kevy
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:00 am

Post by Kevy »

Thanks again Zydor - I'm currently loaded to the hilt with Seti and Einstein projects, but I'll try that one as soon as I've crunched them down a bit.

I've been looking through google at optimising my machine for Boinc, but can't really see the wood for the trees with a lot of old and probably oudated info out there - do you have any tips? Will BOINC run better with more RAM (currently 4gb)?

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Zydor
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:00 am

Post by Zydor »

Kevy wrote:....... I've been looking through google at optimising my machine for Boinc, but can't really see the wood for the trees with a lot of old and probably oudated info out there - do you have any tips? Will BOINC run better with more RAM (currently 4gb)?  .......
Doubtless some stuff below you will already be aware of from your crunching 5 years ago, advance appologies if I state the "already knowns", difficult to know where to start with such a general  question you asked outside of the specific aspect quoted above. You appear to have restarted in January so you've got your feet back under the table as they say :)

BOINC is still BOINC with all its foibles :)  The biggest overall change is the GPUs are now catered for (as such).  They first put in a quick fix to make them useable, then started down the long, long road of changing code writen 10 years previously for CPU only.  Been a long journey to get the detail sorted ..... and cater for the exponential hardware capability  explosion.  

They are still beavering away catching up on the detail of GPUs.  The biggest changes are not yet in the recommended BOINC version (6.10.60),  they are in the latest Alpha version 6.12.26.  If you are a GPU cruncher, switching to 6.12.26 is a no brainer, massively more reliable and easier to use for GPUs. Always something around someone doesnt like - surprise surprise - but 6.12.26 is very good (its a Beta app, so usual caviats apply, however its stable enough for everyday useage).

BOINC Versions - Full List including Alphas and Betas

The old syndrome of presenting newly discovered drivers or tweeks as "giant leaps for mankind", as opposed -to the reality of "small steps for man" still exists (!).  So be wary of alledged silver bullets and new ability/performance cure-it-all's, they very rarely come along in the former guise.  It is important to keep track of, and be uptodate with graphics drivers - its not "instant death" not to switch, but its an important topic as both AMD & NVidia continue to rapidly evolve their drivers sets.  You might want to consider watching others test new graphics drivers first .....  unless you are the experienced type with the vagaries of new drivers, then switch if all seems well.

The memory you specifically asked about ..... 4Gb will get you going fine, you will be able to crunch the full range of BOINC projects with that, depending what your other hardware is.  You may find some limitations with numbers of WUs crunched simultaneously with *only* 4Gb, but thats relatively minor disadvantage.  Memory is more applicable to the Project application, not BOINC.  Each Project application has wildly diverse memory needs from a few Kb's to the still crowned King of Memory eaters, CPDN.  Pays your money, takes your choice on memory.  On balance, it would be nice to go for 8Gb if it will fit your motherboard, but  I wouldnt die for it, very nice to have, far from essential.

You've just done THE most important thing, join a well founded team.  BOINC is increasingly complex, and access to a bunch of folk of a like mind without wading through rat infested ego-minefields is vital.  Lots of folk here who will help, and I reckon as a complete entity we'll find the answer to just about anything with the Team Members we have here, so post away on this Board about any aspect, you'll find people here in "help mode", not trailing ego's, and there's always someone around who will answer with a solution/partial solution.

Better shut up - rambling again rofl :)  Difficult to know what else to say on such a huge topic without more specific guidence on your wants and needs.  Overall I would concentrate on one Project at a time, get it set, tweeked etc, then start on the next.  Changing too much in one go with BOINC can cause problems when troubleshooting problems.

With BOINC these days, the slow route is almost invariably the fast route  :wink:

Regards
Zy
Ben
Posts: 1387
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:00 am

Post by Ben »

Well rounded up Zydor, there are those of us (like moi) who talk rubbish as well  :lol:  :wink:

You'll get used to it  :P Also welcome aboard  :)
Kevy
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 12:00 am

Post by Kevy »

Thanks Zydor, sounds like good advice to me :) - I'll spend some time 'lurking and learnin''

And thanks for the welcome Ben :)

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UBT - mickyb69
Posts: 1655
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2007 1:00 am

Post by UBT - mickyb69 »

Hiya  kevi welcome to a very helpful  :shock:  :lol:  :scratch:  :scratch: Haven't a clue what you lot are on about most of the time ! :wink:
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