Additional Video card?

[Jeffers]

My current PC is over two years old now and I'm thinking of upgrading my video card to beef it up a bit. My current card is an Nvidia 9800GT. So, two questions;- firstly a recommendation for what to go for in a new card, I don't really want to spend a lot of money, what would around £100 get me these days?
Secondly, can I then leave my existing card in the machine so it can crunch full time? :scratch:

[Temujin]

I'm not sure what ATI cards are available at the £100 mark but you can get an  NVidia GTX460 at overclockers for £107, cheaper elsewhere maybe.
I've got one running primegrid PPS that gets approx 285,000 credits/day but it may be a super-clocked version so maybe 220-250k might be more realistic

I presume you'd run the new card full time rather than the 9800GT??
Either way, it's possible to do that with project specific  config files.
You would of course need a motherboard with sufficient PCI-E slots available  :roll:

[Jeffers]

Cheers for that John. I had already looked at a GTX460, it seems to be good value. The one on Overclockers that you mentioned was the lower memory version, with 768Mb. I've found a 1Gb card on Ebay for £112 inc shipping, so I've gone for that. So it'll soon be time for a bit of surgery on the PC! It'll be interesting to see what it does to my RAC, as I'm already doing very well on Primegrid with my current set-up.

[Jeffers]

Right, I've got my new GTX460 in the first PCI-E x16 slot.and I've moved my old 9800Gt to another slot (just had room to it fit in!)
I've got my monitor plugged into the GTX460, and Windows (7, 64 bit) can see both cards in device manager.
So, I've fired BOINC manager up, and it can also see both cards but, in the event log, it says after the 9800GT "not used". I don't know what that means. Does it refer to the fact that there's no monitor connected or does it mean that BOINC won't use it, and if that is the case, why not?
Sorry to sound so dumb, but I've never had two video cards in one PC before, I don't really know how to make use of the second card (apart from BOINC, that is!)

[Zydor]

If you are Primarily a Gamer, leave it as is.

If you are Primarily a Cruncher, I'd swop the cards around so that the Primary PCI-E slot (known as "slot zero", is occupied by the 9800 card with the monitor attatched to it.  That leaves the 460 free to just crunch without being hit by other things on the PC.

Regarding "not used", what GPU Projects do you run/are running/are attatched to at present ?  Its possible you may have to put on a "dummy plug" to terminate the second card, but lets just pause for some more facts first before hitting that trail.  Attatching a Dummy Plug is an easy thing to do (& cheap only a few £'s, less than a tenner all in all, so no long term worries)

Regards
Zy

[Jeffers]

Projects are pretty much as in my sig. I don't have PS3/GPU or Magnetism doing anything any more, mostly crunching Primegrid, Rosetta and Seti.

[Zydor]

Suggestion - attatch to PG PPS Sieve, see if it picks up your cards - from that we'll know how you stand and what might need doing.  

I would suggest initial cache setting of 0/0 before you start the attatching process though, until you know whats what as that will prevent a mega download on initial attatchment. Can easily revert to your normal cache setting when you have got sorted out.

Regards
Zy

[Temujin]

Nice one Jeffers :thumbup:

Re "not used"
It could be as simple as extending your desktop to include (and possibly activate) the 2nd card. Run up NVidia Control Panel and look at the Setup Multiple Display section.
Or plug in another monitor if you have one.

The "dummy plug" solution involves buying some resistors and fitting them into a vga socket either directly on the card or by using a DVI->vga adaptor with the DVI plugged into the card. I bought a bunch of resistors from RS and currently have several in active service. You could also get them from Maplin.
I used this guide

good luck

[Jeffers]

Cheers for that John, I think that's where the problem lies. I've done some reading on the Nvidia control panel help files and it does seem that a display has to be plugged into a card to show it as in use. I can't go down the SLI route as the cards are too different but, even so, I should still be able to get both cards working. I only have one rather elderly monitor (an ACER AL1715), so perhaps it might be time to get myself a new one and have the old one just there to run the other GPU. Or I may go down the dummy plug route, it looks straightforward enough. I know I should have kept all those old components I had lying around!

[Jeffers]

Right, I treated myself to a new monitor, and very nice it is too. So I'm running with two displays, the new monitor on the 460 and the old one on the 9800. Windows is happy, it can see both cards and monitors, and the Nvidia control panel has them both too.
BUT! Boinc event logs still say that both cards are present, but the 9800 is "not used", and when I'm crunching there's only ever one task running on a GPU.
What next?
I assume that we have people successfully crunching on multiple GPUs? If so, why won't my set-up work? If I can't get the second card doing some crunching then there's really no point in having it in the PC.

[UBT - Mikee]

Have a look at...
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/dev/forum_thread.php?id=5577

There's a couple of answers there you haven't tried yet.

I think I had a similar problem a few months ago and afair I downloaded and saved the most recent drivers,  uninstalled ALL the videos drivers (via control panel >device manager) reinstalled with the new ones then reboot.

It may be important which one you reinstall first - though I can't remember which order worked or if it does matter! (Though thinking about it it's the same driver for both the cards!)

You will get it working! That's an order!

Oh and there's a new version of the BOINC manager as well http://boinc.berkeley.edu/download.php

[Zydor]

Get the feeling you are nearly there, both are terminated via the two screens, and the drivers are recognised by Windows and BOINC.  With a new screen you will be able to use the second connector on that screen to terminate the second card, sounds strange to have both cards connected to one screen, but it will be fine, Windows will ignore the secondary card, and send screen info via the primary.  However the second card is still "terminated" - saves you using two screens if your sole purpose is to get both cards reconised.

Have you got the "use all GPUs" statement in a cc_config in the BOINC Data Directory ?

If you have, its possibly extending the desktop across both cards that may help - I believe with NVidia you can do that inside the NVidia control screen.

If the cc_config is in place, and extending doesnt sort it, there is another thing you can do, but I can't guarantee it will work ...

Sometimes two cards loaded at different times causes issues inside the registry, and you may have to deinstall all NVidia drivers, use a driver cleaner to get rid of the remaining bits left over, don't allow windows to load any NVidia drivers if it asks you.

At that point you will have a strange looking desktop with a 640x480 resolution.  Disconnect whatever will be the "secondary" card (just unplug the power from the card after closing down), power up, and load the driver on the primary one that will be used for the screen.  Then reboot, check it works, and close down the PC.  Reconnect the second card, power up and load the NVidia driver onto the second one (you can do it explicitly via device manager and the driver update facility for that card), then reboot. If it successful settles, close it all down and do a cold restart.  Then see what BOINC says ...

EDIT:  Whatever you do, don't use the 270 driver from NVidia, its a disaster waiting to happen, its caused major issues all over the place.  It would seem the 275 drivers are fine and they appear to have fixed the 270 dramas with the latest 275 drivers

Regards
Zy

[Temujin]

Have you got the "use all GPUs" statement in a cc_config in the BOINC Data Directory ?

I think Zydor has hit the nail on the head there, that's where I'd put my money anyway
I seem to remember that if you have multiple identical cards they will all be used by default but if you have multiple dissimilar cards only the 1st is used

Stop boinc and create a file called cc_config.xml in the boinc data directory and add the following
<cc_config>
<options>
<use_all_gpus>1</use_all_gpus>
</options>
</cc_config>

Or if cc_config.xml already exists, add <use_all_gpus>1</use_all_gpus> into the Options section

Then Start boinc

[Zydor]

Forgive an obvious statement .... I don't know if you are used to cc_config.xml - hate to see it happen as it will cause issues you don't need.

When creating cc_config.xml  use Notepad, no other editor.  If you don't use Notepad, there is an almost certain risk additional hidden editor control charactors will be added which will wreck the cc_config.

Open Notepad, copy in the lines above and save it (in the BOINC Data directory) as:

- file type(*.txt)   -   but without the .txt, you should type the full name cc_config.xml

- make sure the encoding drop down at the bottom of the screen shows ANSI

It'll then be fine

Regards
Zy

[Jeffers]

Still no joy.....
Done the cc_config.xml file and that's made no difference. I assume when you say put it in BOINC's data directory that you mean the main BOINC directory, there isn't one called DATA.
If I do a "read config file" command from the advanced tab, it puts an entry in the event log saying "re-reading cc_config.xml" so that looks ok, but it doesn't make any difference.
I'm getting to the point where I don't want to mess about any more. I don't think it's a driver issue, everything except BOINC is fine, I'm not going to risk screwing up my PC just to get another GPU crunching.

[UBT - Mikee]

I don't think it's a driver issue,

Betcha it is!

Though have you reinstalled the BOINC manager with the new version yet?

[Zydor]

..... Betcha it is! ......

+1

Windows recognises the current loaded drivers, BOINC recognises they exist, and "all gpus" statement is in there and working. There is only one thing it can be - Drivers.

I know it will seem strange because Windows - on the face of it "sees" both cards with Drivers.  However, time & again, those loading up two disimilar types of same make cards - particularly NVidia for some reason - get caught by not loading both from scratch at the same time.

I understand the concern of screwing up the PC installation, but you will not - worst case is a reinstall of Driver for a single card attatched to a screen as part of the last "ah sod it" effort to just go back to just one card (I've been there a few times in the past   ). A single card install has always worked fine with you, so you have that worst case fall back safely tucked away.

I would go for zapping both card installs as previously outlined, but start by going to Device Manager and delete the two cards as devices directly in device manager (right click on the device manager entry for the cards and choose "uninstall" ignoring the usual windows death threats), then via control panel, and lastly use driver sweeper etc.  don't short cut it with just driver sweeper as you are ensuring the Registry entries are changed, and that will not happen unless you delete via, (first) device manager, and (second) control panel.

Regards
Zy

[Jeffers]

Go on then, I'll give it one last go.....it's annoying me now!

Do you have any particular driver cleaner you would recommend?

BTW, I am running the latest version of BOINC manager, but I tried a re-install anyway - it made no difference.

PS. I have noticed that my RAC has shot up now I'm running with the 460 doing the crunching, the credits are flooding in!

[Zydor]

.....it's annoying me now!........

Been there as well .... but remember the shiny new screen don't like flesh and blood fists being shoved through it  

Re driver sweeper, I'd give this one a shot - highly recommended at the Site and their forums, and its the latter where interest should perk up given the nature of the guys there. I've used it a lot, and its always looked after me well.

Driver Sweeper Download

Regards
Zy

[Jeffers]

Well, I finally got there. My BOINC manager now shows two tasks running on GPUs, one on device 0 and another on device 1.
It was a bit of a scary experience at times though.....
As per Zy's advice I first went to the device manager to remove the video cards and promptly got a blue screen of death when  I clicked on "Uninstall" of the 9800! I got booted back up OK though and spent an interesting hour or two getting things cleaned out. As Zydor said, the display looks very bizarre with no drivers or graphics cards installed. Anyway, I've now put everything back together and it's looking good. I've also gotten hold of the 275 drivers as recommended.
I hope the extra credits will be worth it!
Thanks for all the help and advice from everyone who responded.

[Zydor]

Nice one Jeff, Well Done  :thumbleft:

Regards
Zy