World Team Positions and BlackOps

[UBT - Mikee]

It's a few years since I had a rant...

Am I right in thinking that members of BlackOps are an offshoot of the SETI.USA team?

If so, then it looks like, effectively, SETI.USA will have 2 teams in the top 10 very soon. They would also overtake us and TSBT and claim the #2 slot in a couple of months. To me it seems like SETI.USA members are getting bored as there's no real challenge for them anymore - no teams can get anywhere near their RAC.

'MyShortPencil' and, I suspect, a few others are spreading their credits to other teams, which is great, so long as they don't affect the overall position of the teams and their own respective goals.

The way things are going I can see BlackOps claiming #2 spot, creating a buffer, then there's nothing to stop them creating another team and doing the same thing again. If taken to extremes then it is plausible that SETI.USA could occupy the whole of the Top 10.

Not sure what anyone can do about it but it does seem a little unfair that 1 team could have such an effect on World positions like this.

Rant over  :nike:  :violent3:

Mike

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi Mike,

I can understand that the firepower of some BOINC members could be used for "nefarious" purposes and indeed the idea you've suggested COULD happen.

Of course, it is also possible that other teams could do the same....for instance UBT and TSBT could form TS&UBT...and we could join just our Bitcoin project totals together and this could help boost our standings in the "credit race"....though it would mean that our "normal" teams would drop much lower down the rankings.

Ultimately, if enough other BOINC crunchers come forward and join in, having seen the effect of ASICs on BOINC credits, then they too, could have an impact which may, in the long term, affect SETI.USA's "plan".

It's also worth noting that FreeDC stats now show grand totals, including and excluding BU.....so, long term BOINC crunchers who want nothing to do with BU, can get their kicks from checking the non-BU totals....which also therefore will means SETI.USA and it's co-teams will be seen in a slightly different light

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page=projmain

regards
Tim

[myshortpencil]

Very interesting.  Ste\/e and Cruncher Pete (now Agent 86), were, I believe, originally Team Musketeers, who spent considerable time with SETI.USA.  They are now the core crunchers of BlackOps, which Ste\/e founded a while back for reasons unknown to me.  Ste\/e is also the founder of PBToyz (Poor Boy's Toys), which has over 1 billion non-BU credits.

To slightly over dramatize the situation, you might say there is a fatal attraction by the team to Ste\/e and vice versa  -- a series of marriages and divorces.  Most recently, a forum administrator took the highly unusual step of closing a team-only thread that I started discussing the addition of the links at Free-DC excluding BU from credits.  In Ste\/e's own words from a PM to me, he said, "I simply won't be on a Team that Closes down Threads for no good reason."  So he left SUSA, for about the 3rd time in the past 4 years.  Agent 86 joined him but I have no information about that.

Since Ste\/e's departure, I've been trying, without success, to have the forum admins reopen the thread, even though I believe there is not much left to be said.  Like Ste\/e, I have no stomach for the censorship of discussions that some would rather not have in abrasive tones that reflect the depth of disagreements.

I currently have my ASICs split between one of SUSA's members (crunching on his account) and BlackOps, where I am doing a Memorial crunch for Ste\/e's sister, Barb, who recently passed away.  See, http://theblackopsteam.net/index.php/to ... 7.html#new

As for my crunching for other teams, I have several reasons.  SUSA has never cared much for the way Sicituradastra comported itself in becoming and maintaining its first-place status in BOINC.  I, and other team members, believed that we should behave differently as the first place team, and one way to do that would be to do more crunching for other teams, attempt to make friends around the BOINC world, and to help bring the community of crunchers closer together.  I don't believe my walkabout the BOINC world has been very successful, sorry to say.

I managed to crunch for all teams with world ranks under 201 and with less than 1 billion total credits who have their teams listed on Bitcoin Utopia. I would have dropped down to the 300 level, but by Forumla Boinc rules, teams are assigned to leagues based on their daily average credits earned in November. To temporarily crunch for any team outside of League 1 during November would unfairly move it up 1 or 2 leagues without giving it the permanent resources needed to compete at that level, so I have suspended the walkabout.

Second, by crunching BU for other teams, I hoped to reduce the opposition to the BU credit system by giving other teams a vested interest in supporting the project.  In this regard, UBT has been my greatest success, as Woodles has mentioned elsewhere on this forum, he took his inspiration from me to jump on the BU project in a big way.  The man is an overachiever, and will pass me by in a few weeks.  :)  SUSA's failure, in this regard, in my opinion, is that we haven't been doing enough for other teams.

Third, by crunching BU for other teams, I had hoped to keep our total credits from shooting to the moon and creating a huge gulf between SUSA and other teams.  This has been a complete failure.

I think I had some other reasons, but I don't remember them at the moment.

I write all of this in excessive, and likely boring, detail, to demonstrate that life is far more complex and more interesting than any of us can imagine.  It's very hard to know why others do what they do.  I feel like I do not know the real reasons why I do what I do.

I'm not attempting to create a perspective or a positive image of either myself or my team.  We are both filled with positives and negatives.  But I hope at least some will gain insight from which some introspection will percolate on the matter of speculating why other people do what they do.  I don't think we can ever know for sure, but speculating is certainly therapeutic.

Cheers,
Jerry

[UBT - Mikee]

Ah that puts things in a slightly different light then. Not having access to the private area limited my knowledge and background info.

As far as joining up with other teams to take on either team would be a no-no as it would take the rest of the top 10 just to match them!

So, maybe once BlackOps reached the #1 spot - which I assume is their aim, they may go back to PBToyz and do the same there.

It looks, to me, like internal politics is starting to cause unintentional consequences in other parts of the BOINC world and the rest of us will suffer. Though, I suppose, in the great scheme of things it's just one of the minor glitches that occur here every couple of years.

A case of 'Keep Calm and Carry On' then!

Mike

[myshortpencil]

It looks, to me, like internal politics is starting to cause unintentional consequences in other parts of the BOINC world . . .

Bingo!  Great summary!!  :)

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi Mike and Jerry,

I had a rather nice PM on the BU website from Ste\/e, who was rather bemused by reading the thread on here, about thoughts of there being some sort of conspiracy theory - maybe even leading to world domination of the stats by SETI.USA, BlackOps, Uncle Tom Cobbley and maybe many others !!

So, he's had a bit of a chuckle and, perhaps that has lightened his demeanour a little bit, while he is away attending his sisters funeral.

As such, can I propose that in her memory, we switch over to "BlackOps team", for say 24 hours, (and just as Jerry is doing), to show him some support, during this difficult time?

I don't know when the funeral is, so I would suggest we can either come up with a day and time to switch over or it's left to the individual?

Any suggestions?

regards
Tim

[Woodles]

Hi Tim,

I can agree with that, any day is good for me.

I'm going to suggest tomorrow 12 noon until Friday 12 noon as a starter for the discussion.

Mark

[UBT - Chris]

so we all should join BlackOps for a day?

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi Tim,

I can agree with that, any day is good for me.

I'm going to suggest tomorrow 12 noon until Friday 12 noon as a starter for the discussion.

Mark

Hi Mark & Chris

I can go with that - though if people want to change THEIR time when they swop over, then that's up to personal choice and circumstances.

so we all should join BlackOps for a day?

That would be the idea - only need to do it on BU, to keep things simple.

And as Temujin is "team founder" on BU, so it means I can join in too - otherwise, I'd have had to set up a new account just for the day.

(As team founders can't leave a team, as it could then be taken over by anyone else).

regards
Tim

[Woodles]

I can go with that - though if people want to change THEIR time when they swap over, then that's up to personal choice and circumstances.

But of course, it's only a suggestion. I won't be at home after ~2PM on Friday so it had to finish before then for me.

That would be the idea - only need to do it on BU, to keep things simple.

Only BU for me, much easier to do and control. Hopefully we'll be far enough in front of TSBT to retain UK #1 while members are away.

And as Temujin is "team founder" on BU, so it means I can join in too - otherwise, I'd have had to set up a new account just for the day.

(As team founders can't leave a team, as it could then be taken over by anyone else).

regards
Tim

Lucky that

Mark

[UBT - Mikee]

Being as I started this thread suppose I better show a bit of support then. I'll swap over now for a day.

Mike

[UBT - Chris]

Ill do mine sometime tomorrow

[Woodles]

Well done Mike and Chris, that makes four of us signed up

[UBT - Timbo]

Hi all,

OK - I've switched over to BlackOps now (on BU project) - as I'll be out most of tomorrow, so I can get a few credits on the board, in memory of Barb, Ste\/e's sister.

The URL to the BlackOps team (so you can join up) is: http://www.bitcoinutopia.net/bitcoinuto ... ?teamid=83

regards
Tim

edit: updated with weblink

[UBT - Chris]

Rip, Barb - in memory, I will switch my BU over for 24 hours, from 5pm today

[Woodles]

Oh well, if everyone else is jumping ship early ...

[Ste\/e]

Hi Mike and Jerry,

I had a rather nice PM on the BU website from Ste\/e, who was rather bemused by reading the thread on here, about thoughts of there being some sort of conspiracy theory - maybe even leading to world domination of the stats by SETI.USA, BlackOps, Uncle Tom Cobbley and maybe many others !!

So, he's had a bit of a chuckle and, perhaps that has lightened his demeanour a little bit, while he is away attending his sisters funeral.

As such, can I propose that in her memory, we switch over to "BlackOps team", for say 24 hours, (and just as Jerry is doing), to show him some support, during this difficult time?

I don't know when the funeral is, so I would suggest we can either come up with a day and time to switch over or it's left to the individual?

Any suggestions?

regards
Tim

Yeah you Guy'z are a Chuckle a Minute with all the Theories Flying around. As Timbo Stated I sent him a PM stating my involvement with the BlackOps Team. There simply is no Grand Scheme by me anyway to keep Creating Teams to take over the World Stat's. I'm not even sure the BlackOps Team could ever get to the #1 Combined Spot as far as it is behind.

Anyhoot the Help would be & is Appreciated very much, I've been in Wisconsin since Tue's Night for my Sisters Funeral. Even though she never knew anything about my Involvement with BOINC I'm sure she would have been very grateful for the outpouring of support for the BlackOps Team that has been given so far in Memory of her recent passing ... Thank you very much ... Ste\/E

[Woodles]

Yeah you Guy'z are a Chuckle a Minute with all the Theories Flying around. As Timbo Stated I sent him a PM stating my involvement with the BlackOps Team. There simply is no Grand Scheme by me anyway to keep Creating Teams to take over the World Stat's. I'm not even sure the BlackOps Team could ever get to the #1 Combined Spot as far as it is behind.

Don't say that, you'll take all the fun out of paranoia

Anyhoot the Help would be & is Appreciated very much, I've been in Wisconsin since Tue's Night for my Sisters Funeral. Even though she never knew anything about my Involvement with BOINC I'm sure she would have been very grateful for the outpouring of support for the BlackOps Team that has been given so far in Memory of her recent passing ... Thank you very much ... Ste\/E

My condolences Steve.

Mark

[Ste\/e]

So, he's had a bit of a chuckle and, perhaps that has lightened his demeanour a little bit, while he is away attending his sisters funeral.

I don't know when the funeral is ...

regards
Tim

Tim, the Funeral for my sister Barb will be Friday the 14'th ...

[UBT - Mikee]

Hey it was a cool theory! Though , in the light of things since, a little embarrasing!  :oops:

I'll have to find something else to rant about now  :(

Mike

[Woodles]

Hey it was a cool theory! Though , in the light of things since, a little embarrasing!  :oops:

I'll have to find something else to rant about now  :(

Mike

Indeed it was ... and Steve did say

There simply is no Grand Scheme by me anyway to keep Creating Teams to take over the World Stat's

[myshortpencil]

Well, dang it.  Before you know it, Ste\/e will be crunching for UBT and UBT will be passing SUSA!  :D

I hope you go on walkabouts through the BOINC world when you're in 1st place.

[Woodles]

Well, dang it.  Before you know it, Ste\/e will be crunching for UBT and UBT will be passing SUSA!  :D

Hi Jerry,

Now that would be something!

I hope you go on walkabouts through the BOINC world when you're in 1st place.

I doubt we'd ever get to number one spot in the world but I have every intention of visiting odd teams once UBT  has a bit of a buffer for number 1 in the UK and has the number one spot in BU

Mark

[myshortpencil]

@Tim -- Your post supporting a memorial crunch for Ste\/e's sister in the BU forum has spread far and wide.  SUSA members are joining in because of your post, and so are the TSBT chaps.  :)  Well done!

Jerry

[UBT - Chris]

Ste\/e - I'm afraid that you might be wrong about BlackOps never overtaking SUSA to become wolrd number 1 - look at your RAC (4+billion) compared to theirs (2.7ish billion), and your total credits are already at roughly 100billion!

[UBT - Timbo]

@Tim -- Your post supporting a memorial crunch for Ste\/e's sister in the BU forum has spread far and wide.  SUSA members are joining in because of your post, and so are the TSBT chaps.  :)  Well done!

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for the update. I know that the BU forum isn't the first place to call into, for many people. But I had hoped that a higher percentage of people who saw my O/P would have done something about it.

However, it's also nice to note that the message is still being viewed - 417 as of just now, and as you say, a few more people have joined in support.

It would be nice to think over this weekend that a few more people will join in.

It's good to see that BOINCstats "team member movements" is listing those who've joined in here:

http://boincstats.com/en/stats/144/team ... erMovement

At least Ste\/e has had some quality time with his nearest and dearest, even if it's been in difficult circumstances.

regards
Tim

[myshortpencil]

Here's the list on Free-DC, which may capture more movements than Boinc Stats because of the frequency of its updates.

http://stats.free-dc.org/stats.php?page ... m=BlackOps

Cheers,

Jerry

[UBT - Chris]

That's a good idea - joining other teams for a few days every now and then - i suggests we get to 250 billion first?