Not getting tasks for most projects

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Jeffers
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Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Jeffers »

Something weird is happening on my system. I have five projects enabled to run but I've only got tasks for one of them.
I've currently only got Collatz tasks active or queued.
Did a few manual updates and this is what came up in the event log;-

01/11/2018 16:19:45 | World Community Grid | Sending scheduler request: Requested by project.
01/11/2018 16:19:45 | World Community Grid | Not requesting tasks: don't need (CPU: job cache full; NVIDIA GPU: job cache full)
01/11/2018 16:19:48 | World Community Grid | Scheduler request completed
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | World Community Grid | General prefs: from World Community Grid (last modified 22-Aug-2017 22:57:36)
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | World Community Grid | Host location: none
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | World Community Grid | General prefs: using your defaults
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | Reading preferences override file
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | Preferences:
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | max memory usage when active: 8149.75 MB
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | max memory usage when idle: 8149.75 MB
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | max disk usage: 500.00 GB
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | max CPUs used: 3
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | suspend work if non-BOINC CPU load exceeds 25%
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | (to change preferences, visit a project web site or select Preferences in the Manager)
01/11/2018 16:22:35 | NumberFields@home | update requested by user
01/11/2018 16:22:37 | collatz | Computation for task collatz_sieve_47f5ce51-71aa-44de-b4c0-f7826db6dc67_0 finished
01/11/2018 16:22:37 | collatz | Starting task collatz_sieve_6b84013b-524f-4035-b71d-963f72c9e249_0
01/11/2018 16:22:39 | collatz | Started upload of collatz_sieve_47f5ce51-71aa-44de-b4c0-f7826db6dc67_0_r370059916_0
01/11/2018 16:22:39 | NumberFields@home | Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
01/11/2018 16:22:39 | NumberFields@home | Not requesting tasks: don't need (CPU: job cache full; NVIDIA GPU: job cache full)
01/11/2018 16:22:41 | NumberFields@home | Scheduler request completed
01/11/2018 16:22:42 | collatz | Finished upload of collatz_sieve_47f5ce51-71aa-44de-b4c0-f7826db6dc67_0_r370059916_0
01/11/2018 16:22:43 | Rosetta@home | update requested by user
01/11/2018 16:22:47 | Rosetta@home | Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
01/11/2018 16:22:47 | Rosetta@home | Not requesting tasks: don't need (CPU: job cache full; NVIDIA GPU: job cache full)
01/11/2018 16:22:49 | Rosetta@home | Scheduler request completed
01/11/2018 16:22:54 | Universe@Home | update requested by user
01/11/2018 16:22:54 | Universe@Home | Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
01/11/2018 16:22:54 | Universe@Home | Not requesting tasks: don't need (CPU: job cache full; NVIDIA GPU: job cache full)
01/11/2018 16:22:56 | Universe@Home | Scheduler request completed
01/11/2018 16:23:02 | collatz | Sending scheduler request: To report completed tasks.
01/11/2018 16:23:02 | collatz | Reporting 1 completed tasks
01/11/2018 16:23:02 | collatz | Not requesting tasks: don't need (CPU: not highest priority project; NVIDIA GPU: job cache full)
01/11/2018 16:23:04 | collatz | Scheduler request completed


I've been running multiple projects for ages and only noticed that things weren't quite right during the Numberfields sprint.
I've no idea what is going on here, can someone enlighten me?
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UBT - Mikee
Marvin the Dalek
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by UBT - Mikee »

Hi

The only obvious things I can see are

01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | max CPUs used: 3
01/11/2018 16:22:03 | | suspend work if non-BOINC CPU load exceeds 25%

You could go to 4 CPU's but you may have set this on purpose, but Max load 25% maybe the cause. I always run at 100%
Options/preferences then check both limits are at 100% or whatever you'd like. I don't normally see any performance drops with both at 100%. Other than that make sure that you have 'some' days work work in the 'other' options.

Mike
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Woodles
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Woodles »

Hi Jeff,

I think Mike has a point in that Boinc will stop crunching if none Boinc usage takes your CPU above 25% but it shouldn't stop you getting work.

It seems to think you already have a full cache. Try changing the computer preferences to allow an extra days work. Do you have any tasks suspended?

Mark
UBT - Mikee
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by UBT - Mikee »

Hi

Just in case make sure you've selected 'show all tasks' and not 'show active tasks'

Mike
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Jeffers
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Jeffers »

UBT - Mikee wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:59 pm Hi

Just in case make sure you've selected 'show all tasks' and not 'show active tasks'

Mike
I'm sure I'm looking at the right list. The point is that I've run with those current preferences for ages and always had tasks available for all the projects I've had running and never had an issue. It's just weird that all I've got now is Collatz tasks.
Just tried something else. I'd put Collatz on "no new tasks" earlier so that if it was filling the cache it would have to leave some space as tasks completed. Just did an update on Rosetta and got a task from them, so that's progress. Just don't know now why Collatz seems to be able to grab all the space in the caches, it never did that before....
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UBT - Timbo
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Hi

Just another opinion to add to the cause:

Check the BOINC Manager > Computing preferences and let us know what all the settings are for the "Computing" tab and the "Disk and memory" tab - so just advise the actual numbers in the boxes...no need to copy the box titles, as long as the numbers are in order (from the top of each tab, down to the bottom).

eg:

I have the following settings:

Computing tab:
75
100
unticked
unticked
unticked
unticked
0.5
0
960

Disk and memory:
ticked - 100
ticked 10
unticked
100
100
unticked
75

The next step is to give an approximate count of how many tasks you have, that havent started yet, 1 for CPU tasks and the 2nd for GPU tasks.

This will then help figure out what's going on.

Another option, is if you install AnyDesk (which is a remote connection utility) and then one of our tech savvy members (myself, Mark, etc) can actually log into your PC and see the actual BOINC Manager settings directly.

regards
Tim
Jeffers
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Jeffers »

UBT - Timbo wrote: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:03 pm Hi

Just another opinion to add to the cause:

Check the BOINC Manager > Computing preferences and let us know what all the settings are for the "Computing" tab and the "Disk and memory" tab - so just advise the actual numbers in the boxes...no need to copy the box titles, as long as the numbers are in order (from the top of each tab, down to the bottom.

eg:

I have the following settings:

Computing tab:
75 Jeff-75
100 Jeff-100
unticked Jeff- Unticked
unticked Jeff- Unticked
unticked Jeff- Unticked
unticked Jeff- ticked and 25% (been like that for ages)
0.5 Jeff- 0.5
0 Jeff- 0.5
960 Jeff- 60

Disk and memory:
ticked - 100 Jeff- Ticked 500
ticked 10 Jeff- Ticked 500
100 Jeff- Ticked 50
100 Jeff- 50
unticked Jeff- unticked
75 Jeff- 75

(you seem to be missing an, option, it looks like one of the memory ones. I have four. Useage, leave, GPU and percent, I have 50, 50, unticked, 75)

The next step is to give an approximate count of how many tasks you have, that havent started yet, 1 for CPU tasks and the 2nd for GPU tasks.

Jeff - Task queue, I have only Collatz again this morning. I've had it on no new tasks overnight and I'm down to about 50, all are CPU + GPU. Active task are three Collatz CPU only, with long run times, and one GPU & CPU task.

This will then help figure out what's going on.

Another option, is if you install AnyDesk (which is a remote connection utility) and then one of our tech savvy members (myself, Mark, etc) can actually log into your PC and see the actual BOINC Manager settings directly.

regards
Tim
If that doesn't help I'll try the Anydesk route, I think I can trust you guys on my system. I'm wondering if I should de-install BOINC and let it set up fresh with default settings?
On the plus side, I'm getting loads of credits from Collatz!
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Woodles
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Woodles »

Hi Jeff,

Go into "Options", "Event log options" (Ctrl + shift + F)

Enable the "work_fetch_debug" option (this will generate LOTS of messages in the event log!)

(admin edit) and then click on "Apply"

Pick a project and do a manual update.

There should be a line just after the update request that says something like

Code: Select all

02/11/2018 10:59:03 |  | [work_fetch] target work buffer: 259200.00 + 8640.00 sec
This is the amount of work that Boinc needs to fill it's cache (3 days + 0.1 days in my case)

Just after that will be:

Code: Select all

02/11/2018 10:59:03 | Amicable Numbers | [work_fetch] REC 0.004 prio 0.000 can't request work: suspended via Manager
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | BURP | [work_fetch] REC 31.842 prio -0.131 can request work
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | Gerasim@home | [work_fetch] REC 1431.959 prio -5.919 can request work
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | GoofyxGrid@Home NCI | [work_fetch] REC 28.046 prio 0.000 can't request work: non CPU intensive
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | MindModeling@Beta | [work_fetch] REC 0.000 prio -0.000 can request work
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | SRBase | [work_fetch] REC 7.671 prio 0.000 can't request work: suspended via Manager
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | VGTU project@Home | [work_fetch] REC 2385.623 prio 0.000 can't request work: suspended via Manager
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | WUProp@Home | [work_fetch] REC 0.011 prio -0.000 can't request work: non CPU intensive
These are the projects that can get work and if not, why.
Amicable can't as I've suspended it, BURP can etc.
The "REC" figures are "Recently Estimated Credit" these determine which project Boinc wil ask for work from first. The 'new' scheduler tries to keep all the projects balanced by REC so the lowest numbered project will get work requested first. In my case that's MinModelling as I did a bit of BURP last weekend and I'm doing some Gerasim now but MindModelling has been out of work for ages.

You should then have a couple of lines:

Code: Select all

02/11/2018 10:59:03 |  | [work_fetch] --- state for CPU ---
02/11/2018 10:59:03 |  | [work_fetch] shortfall 1903943.14 nidle 0.00 saturated 29435.54 busy 1333.41
Gives the state of the CPU fetch. I need more work!

Code: Select all

02/11/2018 10:59:03 | Amicable Numbers | [work_fetch] share 0.000
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | BURP | [work_fetch] share 0.000 project is backed off  (resource backoff: 960.65, inc 1200.00)
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | Gerasim@home | [work_fetch] share 1.000
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | MindModeling@Beta | [work_fetch] share 0.000 project is backed off  (resource backoff: 63239.81, inc 86400.00)
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | SRBase | [work_fetch] share 0.000
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | VGTU project@Home | [work_fetch] share 0.000
BURP is backed off as you can only request work infrequently.
(WUProp and Goofy aren't listed as they're non-CPU intensive so don't affect the scheduler)

In my case I picked Gerasim to update:

Code: Select all

02/11/2018 10:59:03 | Gerasim@home | [work_fetch] set_request() for CPU: ninst 8 nused_total 206.00 nidle_now 0.00 fetch share 1.00 req_inst 0.00 req_secs 1903943.14
02/11/2018 10:59:03 | Gerasim@home | [work_fetch] set_request() for Intel GPU: ninst 1 nused_total 0.00 nidle_now 1.00 fetch share 1.00 req_inst 1.00 req_secs 267840.00
02/11/2018 10:59:07 | Gerasim@home | [work_fetch] request: CPU (1903943.14 sec, 0.00 inst) Intel GPU (267840.00 sec, 1.00 inst)
02/11/2018 10:59:10 | Gerasim@home | Sending scheduler request: Requested by user.
02/11/2018 10:59:10 | Gerasim@home | Requesting new tasks for CPU and Intel GPU
02/11/2018 10:59:12 | Gerasim@home | Scheduler request completed: got 0 new tasks
02/11/2018 10:59:12 | Gerasim@home | Device INTEL GPU disabled by user. No work sent for INTEL GPU
02/11/2018 10:59:12 | Gerasim@home | CPU: tasks_in_progress>= max_task_in_progress.  tasks_in_progress= 206. max_task_in_progress= 128.
02/11/2018 10:59:12 | Gerasim@home | No work sent for CPU
02/11/2018 10:59:12 | Gerasim@home | CPU: tasks_in_progress>= max_task_in_progress.  tasks_in_progress= 206. max_task_in_progress= 128.
02/11/2018 10:59:12 | Gerasim@home | No work sent for CPU
Request work for 8 CPUs
Request work for iGPU
Request 1903943 seconds of work for the CPU, 267840 seconds of work for the iGPU.
iGPU is disabled so no work.
And I have the maximum number of tasks in that the project allows so no new work.

If you can't follow your event log messages (they're not straightforward at all and poorly documented) post the first hundred lines or so after an update and we'll pull it apart here.

As far as Anydesk is concerned, I don't have it, I'm not going to install it at work and I'm away straight from work for the weekend so can't help you there, sorry.

Before uninstalling BOinc, reset and remove the project then add it back in.

Mark
UBT - Timbo
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Hiya

Yup - I left out one of the settings, namely under Disk and memory and the setting for

Use no more than [ ] % of total - this I have as unticked.

So, of the other settings you have the one that could well have an effect, (and I think Mark has pointed this out in a previous post) is the one for:

Suspend when non-BOINC CPU usage is above [ ] %

So, if this is TICKED and you have it set at 25%, then whenever the PC needs some extra "oomph" (for instance browsing the web, or playing any sort of game) then it's likely that BOINC will suspend CPU crunching until the PC needs less than 25% of the CPU.

The effect of this on how BOINC Manager requests tasks, is that BM will calculate how much time is being spent on crunching and how much time is being spent when your PC needs more of the CPU. BM will then adjust how many tasks you will be able to download, because it knows that for a certain number of hours per day, your CPU is (mainly) being used for other things.

And of course if the PC is only powered up for a certain number of hours per day (rather than being left on 24/7) then the amount of "free time" when the CPU can be dedicated to BOINC is further reduced.

Further, if you are crunching both CPU AND GPU Collatz tasks, then this will also affect which projects you can download more CPU tasks from...as BM will have made it's calculations based on how long the Collatz CPU tasks are taking.

I would be tempted to do the following, at least as a trial:

1) Untick the 'Suspend when non-BOINC CPU usage is above [ ] %" box
AND
2) Go to your Collatz account (on their website) and select "Collatz Conjecture preferences" and then edit the page and UNTICK the "Use CPU" box. Then click on "Update preferences" and to make sure it has "taken" go to the BM "Projects" tab, then click on "collatz" and then click on "Update".

This will then only allow Collatz to download GPU tasks and it will free up your CPU to crunch CPU tasks from other projects.

It might still be necessary to do some "under the bonnet" tinkering but try this for now and see what happens and let us know.

regards
Tim
Jeffers
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Jeffers »

Ok, have some logs!
I had a bit of a look through, it seems to be saying that shortfall is nil, so it doesn't think the CPU needs any more work.
I've tweaked those settings you suggested, we'll see what happens....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
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Woodles
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Woodles »

Hi Jeff,

Correct, Boinc doesn't think it needs any more work.

I think your problem is that Collatz is reserving almost a full CPU core for each task.

What does it say in Boinc manager next to each Collatz task? There should be something along the lines of "0.984 CPU, 1 Nvidia GPU".

If that is the case then once the GPU cache is full then the CPU cache will also be full as Boinc thinks they're both being used for Collatz.

In my experience, Collatz doesn't need a full CPU core for each task especially as it's only used at the start and end of each task. To persuade it otherwise you'll need an app_config file.

Code: Select all

<app_config>
  <app>
    <name>collatz_sieve</name>
    <gpu_versions>
      <gpu_usage>1.00</gpu_usage>
      <cpu_usage>0.50</cpu_usage>
    </gpu_versions>
  </app>
</app_config>
I *think* that's the right name for the collatz application, this PC doesn't have a GPU and I'm away from the ones that do.
Each task should now require one GPU and half a CPU leaving some free for other projects.

(Admin edit) Use a plain text editor, enter the above code in a new file and then "Save As" in the "boinc/data/projects/boinc.thesonntags.com_collatz" directory and save as plain text called "app_config.xml"

Then go to BM > "Options", "Read config files"

You may have to abort the tasks that have downloaded and not started or it may pick up on the change at the next task I can't remember.

I guess it worked before because you had CPU work downloaded before the GPU cache filled up.

If I remember correctly, didn't you bump usage up to 100% for the sprint? That would have allowed Boinc to download more tasks than usual. Boinc will happily run CPU work if there's a spare CPU, it just won't ask for any more.

Good luck.

Mark
UBT - Timbo
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Woodles wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:43 pm
In my experience, Collatz doesn't need a full CPU core for each task especially as it's only used at the start and end of each task. To persuade it otherwise you'll need an app_config file.

Code: Select all

<app_config>
  <app>
    <name>collatz_sieve</name>
    <gpu_versions>
      <gpu_usage>1.00</gpu_usage>
      <cpu_usage>0.50</cpu_usage>
    </gpu_versions>
  </app>
</app_config>
I *think* that's the right name for the collatz application, this PC doesn't have a GPU and I'm away from the ones that do.
Each task should now require one GPU and half a CPU leaving some free for other projects.
Hi both

Yup - that is the correct name of the Collatz application so the code as above is OK and it will limit the project to using 1x GPU with a corresponding 0.5 of a CPU to handle the administration/overheards of crunching the GPU tasks.

regards
Tim
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Jeffers wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:46 pm Ok, have some logs!
I had a bit of a look through, it seems to be saying that shortfall is nil, so it doesn't think the CPU needs any more work.
I've tweaked those settings you suggested, we'll see what happens....
Hiya

I took a quick look through the log file and after a bit of sorting and collating, I found the following:

Between 1st Nov at 08:59, until 2nd Nov at 12:33 (which is about 27 hours and 30 mins), your PC was suspended from crunching BOINC for a total of 9 hrs 39 mins and 54 seconds.

So about 1/3rd of the time, you are not crunching CPU-type BOINC tasks.

This might be why BM thinks you don't need any more CPU tasks, as those you have in your cache will be enough for your PC to crunch, taking into account the relevant deadlines for these tasks.

Given the relative power of most CPUs these days, the previously mentioned:

Suspend when non-BOINC CPU usage is above [ ] %

should be set to "unticked" and see if any issues arise. If they do, then try a higher setting, such as 90% or 80%...as the setting you have right now is very low and hence BM will suspend crunching as soon as CPU usage reaches (or exceeds) 25%.

If you do want to play games or do some memory intensive browsing, then you can always right click the BOINC icon in the system tray (at bottom right of your screen) and just suspend CPU tasks temporarily ;-)

regards
Tim
Woodles
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Woodles »

UBT - Timbo wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:46 pm
Jeffers wrote: Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:46 pm Ok, have some logs!
I had a bit of a look through, it seems to be saying that shortfall is nil, so it doesn't think the CPU needs any more work.
I've tweaked those settings you suggested, we'll see what happens....
Hiya

I took a quick look through the log file and after a bit of sorting and collating, I found the following:

Between 1st Nov at 08:59, until 2nd Nov at 12:33 (which is about 27 hours and 30 mins), your PC was suspended from crunching BOINC for a total of 9 hrs 39 mins and 54 seconds.

So about 1/3rd of the time, you are not crunching CPU-type BOINC tasks.

This might be why BM thinks you don't need any more CPU tasks, as those you have in your cache will be enough for your PC to crunch, taking into account the relevant deadlines for these tasks.

Given the relative power of most CPUs these days, the previously mentioned:

Suspend when non-BOINC CPU usage is above [ ] %

should be set to "unticked" and see if any issues arise. If they do, then try a higher setting, such as 90% or 80%...as the setting you have right now is very low and hence BM will suspend crunching as soon as CPU usage reaches (or exceeds) 25%.

If you do want to play games or do some memory intensive browsing, then you can always right click the BOINC icon in the system tray (at bottom right of your screen) and just suspend CPU tasks temporarily ;-)

regards
Tim
Hi Tim,

Especially as Collatz is reserving a whole core to itself but not using it, plenty of spare capacity to have Boinc running all the time.

(Jeff has various games already listed in the "suspend for exclusive applications" so Boinc will automatically stop when those are opened.)

Mark
Jeffers
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Jeffers »

Right, done the extra config file and cleared out the queued Collatz tasks.
Did updates for my other projects, they've now all got tasks, and some are running.
I've allowed Collatz new tasks again now so it's now got GPU tasks downloaded (and one running).
They all still say they'll want 0.994 CPUs but I guess that's just a generic message?
Anyway, we'll see how things go.
Who'd have thought it would be such hard work trying to be helpful to these projects???
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Jeffers
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Re: Not getting tasks for most projects

Post by Jeffers »

All seems well this morning, still got a mix of tasks queued or running....
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