Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

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UBT - Timbo
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Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Woodles wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:46 am The Nvidia GTX 2050 / 2060 / 2070 / 2080 / Ti boards are announced today, maybe you should get one instead of spending your money on holidays ... :D

Mark
Hi Mark

With luck, that'll mean that the prices of 10xx series GPUs might drop a bit...and likewise, older series GPUs might drop too...

Sadly, it will mean that my GTX 5xx Series GPUs (2x 560, 2x 580 + 1x 590) aren't worth much at all anymore !!

regards
Tim
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

UBT - Timbo wrote: Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:06 pmHi Mark

With luck, that'll mean that the prices of 10xx series GPUs might drop a bit...and likewise, older series GPUs might drop too...

Sadly, it will mean that my GTX 5xx Series GPUs (2x 560, 2x 580 + 1x 590) aren't worth much at all anymore !!

regards
Tim
Hi Tim,

First reports have them as minor improvements, upgrade if you're going up a step (1070 to 2080 or 1080 to 2080Ti) but don't bother otherwise. One report even had the 2080Ti as ~7% worse for performance per watt. Of course, there are always those who have to have the fastest available regardless of the price/performance.

No prices yet, founders editions (From Nvidia) expected next week, partners (EVGA, MSI, Gigabyte) next month.

I don't think the 10 series is going anywhere but that might mean that your 5 series are worth more than you thought :)

Mark
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Hi Mark

But what about the "Professional" (ie NOT Gaming version) Turing Series, as per this:

https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/nvidia-turing

Prices have got me floored:
Nvidia Turing price
Thus far, Nvidia has shown that Turing’s incredible real-time ray tracing technology will come at a steep premium, at least going by the prices of these three following Quadro RTX cards.

Nvidia Quadro RTX 8000: $10,000 (£7,830, AU$13,751)
Nvidia Quadro RTX 6000: $6,300 (£4,935, AU$8,660)
Nvidia Quadro RTX 5000: $2,300 (£1,800, AU$3,160)
Of course, this are graphics cards meant for commercial work in the visual effects industry
But then the original Tesla "Professional" number crunching GPU's weren't cheap

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Tesla

...and still aren't if the prices on eBay are to be believed... !!

regards
Tim
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

Hi Tim,

I think the 'RTX' naming is the reason why the performance for crunching and gaming isn't as big an improvement as expected. The extra cores for ray tracing take power and real estate and don't contribute to the 'normal' operation of the card (I imagine some games may be re-written to take advantage of them eventually)

I suppose the on board memory may play a part as well, the RTX8000 is rumoured to have 48Gbytes of GDDR6 memory fitted.

Code: Select all

10 series:
Name	CUDA	RAM
1080	2560	8GB
1080Ti	3584	11GB
20 Series:
2080	2944	8GB
2080ti	4352	11GB
Quadro
5000	3072	16GB
6000	4608	24GB
8000	4608	48GB
The only semi-official prices I've seen are from a leaked Zoltac spreadsheet that has the 2080 at $750 and the 2080Ti at $1100. If the prices are all correct, I can't see that the 8000 is going to be worth nine times as much as the 2080Ti!

Mark
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

So according to Nvidias numbers (unofficial/unbiased reviews under NDA until the 19th):
2080Ti - 45% more performance than the 1080Ti but double the price.
2080 - 12% more performance than the 1080Ti for 25% more.
2080 - 46% more performance than the 1080 but again for twice the price.

Mark
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Hi Mark

Thanks for the extra info.

I would imagine that the reviews will be positive but with caveats attached.

So, my guess is that most people will hang onto their GTX10xx Series for now until such time as a few "popular" games creators supply some updates to take advantage of the new hardware.

Best not to hold one's breath then !

regards
Tim
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

Hi Tim,

Apparently there's already a dozen or so games out using the ray tracing cores and about the same looking at adding them.

The drawback is that without ray tracing, the games can average 50/60 FPS in 4K at top settings, with ray tracing enabled, it falls to 25/30 FPS. Looks better though :D

Which means that the existing 10 series cards probably won't get much cheaper (bad for buyers but good for sellers)

Until someone gets a 20 series GPU and runs Boinc on it, there's no telling how good/bad it will be. The GPUs themselves have additional CUDA cores so they'll perform better and slightly lower power but are they worth the extra price?

Personally I'm sticking with my 9 and 10 series cards for this year at least unless the 2080Ti is as good as a Quartro :)

Mark
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

First reviews are out and the 20 series is looking better than expected for games.

It was originally thought that even the 2080Ti wouldn't be able to manage 4K @ 60+ FPS in games but initial reviews show it reaching ~80+ in the games tested. This is with ray tracing turned off as there aren't enough games out yet to test and the game implementations/drivers are not optimised.

Code: Select all

		2080Ti	2080	1080Ti	1080	1070	Vega 64
CUDA cores	4352	2944	3584	2560	1920	4096
ROP units	88	64	88	64	64	64
Base clock	1350	1515	1481	1607	1506	1247
Boost clock	1635	1800	1582	1733	1683	1546
VRAM		11	8	11	8	8	8
Memory BW	14	14	11	10	8	1.9
FPS 4K GTA V	84	69	71	54	43	52
FPD 1440P	104	102	99	92	81	84
FPS 1080P	105	104	103	103	96	95
Peak power	285	225	267	186	154	309
Idle power	20	14	9	6	6	11
FP32		18301	11443	14185	8786	6463	14480
FP64		562.8	357.7	464.3	292.4	201.9	910.4
INT64		3913	2475	812.2	501.8	346	758.9
Price ($)	1199	799	675	470	390	570
The big sticking point is the price.
For gamers at 4K:
The 2080Ti gives an 18% improvement over the 1080TI for a 77% increase in cost
The 2080 is 3% worse then the 1080Ti for 18% more cost

And it's even worse for 1440P:
The 2080Ti is only 5% better than the 1080Ti, 13% better than the 1080 and even only 28% better than the 1070 even though it costs three times as much.

Slightly better in computing, paying 77% more than a 1080Ti for your 2080Ti gets you 20% improvement in the FP64 score.

Mark
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

Code: Select all

	2080Ti	2080	2070	1080Ti	1080	1070
Cores	4,352	2,944	2,304	3,584	2,560	1,920
Clock	1,350	1,515	1,410	1,481	1,607	1,506
FP32	18,301	11,443	8,497	14,185	8,786	6,463
Price	$1,199	$799	$499	$675	$470	$390

Performance/$ (cores*clock/price)
	4,900	5,582	6,510	7,864	8,573	7,414
FP32/$
	15.26	14.32	17.03	21.01	18.69	16.57
Is the RTX series any good for Boinc?
The 2080Ti has the most cores and the best FP32 performance but the price kills it.

Comparing a 2080Ti to the 1080Ti - 21% more cores, 9% slower clock, 29% better FP32 performance, 7% more power, 78% higher cost!

Comparing a 2080Ti to two 1080Tis - 29% fewer cores, 9% slower clock, 35% less FP32 performance, 47% less power, 11% lower cost.

Comparing a 2080Ti to two 1080s - 15% fewer cores, 16% slower clock, 35% less FP32 performance, 28% less power, 28% higher cost!

Comparing a 2080Ti to three1070s - 24% fewer cores, 10% lower clock, 6% less FP32 performance, 38% less power, 2% higher cost.

Even the Vega64 with it's horrendous power consumption fares well.
Comparing a 2080TI to two Vega 64s - 47% fewer cores, 8% higher clock, 37% less FP32 performance, 54% less power, still 5% higher cost.

Taking price into consideration, the best performing RTX for Boinc should be the 2070 and even then it's beaten in everything by the 1080.
10% fewer cores, 12% slower clock, 3% less FP32 performance, 6% less power, 6% higher cost.

Previous generation, comparing a 1080Ti to a 1080 - 40% more cores, 8% slower clock, 61% better FP32 performance, 46% more power, 44% higher cost.

Matching prices, comparing two1080Tis to three1080s - 7% fewer cores, 8% lower clock, 8% higher FP32 performance, 4% lower power, 4% lower price.


First impressions:
If you want the best 4K gaming performance, get the RTX2080Ti.
If you game in 1440P or 1080P, get the GTX1080Ti.

If you want the best single card Boinc performance, get the RTX2080Ti.
If you want the most cost effective single card Boinc performance, get the GTX1080Ti.
If you want the best overall Boinc performance, get as many GTX1080Tis or GTX1080s as you can afford.

The RTX series are going to make a big difference to gaming but they're not Boinc crunchers until the prices come way down.

Mark
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Woodles wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:29 pm First reviews are out and the 20 series is looking better than expected for games.

It was originally thought that even the 2080Ti wouldn't be able to manage 4K @ 60+ FPS in games but initial reviews show it reaching ~80+ in the games tested. This is with ray tracing turned off as there aren't enough games out yet to test and the game implementations/drivers are not optimised.
Hi Mark

Thanks for the useful summary.

It'll be interesting to know what happens when ray tracing is turned ON in those games that support it...will this mean the GPU takes over more work which the CPU is currently doing? Or will having RT ON mean the CPU has to do more work, pushing even more data down the PCIe lanes in oder to keep the GPU refreshed with stuff.

<snip>
Woodles wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:29 pm The big sticking point is the price.
For gamers at 4K:
The 2080Ti gives an 18% improvement over the 1080TI for a 77% increase in cost
The 2080 is 3% worse then the 1080Ti for 18% more cost

And it's even worse for 1440P:
The 2080Ti is only 5% better than the 1080Ti, 13% better than the 1080 and even only 28% better than the 1070 even though it costs three times as much.

Slightly better in computing, paying 77% more than a 1080Ti for your 2080Ti gets you 20% improvement in the FP64 score.

Mark
I can see that some will just get the RTX models "just because" - a bit like early adopters queueing for the iPhone XS and XS Max...they just can't wait to splash some cash and prove to everyone else that they can afford such items.

In the meantime, NVidia will be riding high and hoping that enough uptake occurs (in both gaming and comercial sides to their business) to help them to recoup some R&D costs. (Though in NVidias case they'll need to sell millions of RTX GPUs to do that - while for Apple it's a walk in the park !!).

I'm not expecting to see RTX models drop in price for some time (years??) and lots of people will be hanging on to their 10xx Series, as it's "good enough".

regards
Tim
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

Hi Tim,
UBT - Timbo wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:38 amHi Mark

Thanks for the useful summary.

It'll be interesting to know what happens when ray tracing is turned ON in those games that support it...will this mean the GPU takes over more work which the CPU is currently doing? Or will having RT ON mean the CPU has to do more work, pushing even more data down the PCIe lanes in oder to keep the GPU refreshed with stuff.
Ray tracing is used to create what the scene would look like with the light sources being reflected off various surfaces.

As I understand it, at present it's done by sort of averaging the brightness and distances from each light source and applying the result to a bock of pixels. A bit rough but it's been fine tuned through time and works quite well. The work is done by the CUDA cores so no load on the CPU.

Ray tracing takes each light source and follows the path of each ray of light as it reflects off the objects. Much more realistic but much more computationally intensive. That's why you need dedicated hardware.

The first reports had the frame rate almost halving in Tomb Raider when ray tracing was turned on. Still needs the CUDA cores to stitch everything back together afterwards so they have a lot more work to do. The drivers were early stage ones though and will improve with time.
UBT - Timbo wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:38 amI can see that some will just get the RTX models "just because" - a bit like early adopters queueing for the iPhone XS and XS Max...they just can't wait to splash some cash and prove to everyone else that they can afford such items.

In the meantime, NVidia will be riding high and hoping that enough uptake occurs (in both gaming and comercial sides to their business) to help them to recoup some R&D costs. (Though in NVidias case they'll need to sell millions of RTX GPUs to do that - while for Apple it's a walk in the park !!).

I'm not expecting to see RTX models drop in price for some time (years??) and lots of people will be hanging on to their 10xx Series, as it's "good enough".

regards
Tim
The other advantage (to NVidia) of setting the RTX prices high is that they don't have to drop the 10 series prices to make them competitive. They'll still sell loads of 1080Tis at the current prices.

Mark
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Woodles »

Not looking good for early adopters of the top card - https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing ... rds-dying/

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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by UBT - Timbo »

Hi all

Looks like NVidia have dropped the ball quite a bit, going by the recent financial reports they've posted in the last few days:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/02/1 ... aughtered/
For Nvidia's Q4 ended 27 January, reported revenues slumped 24 per cent year-on-year to $2.21bn, operating expenses went up by a quarter to $913m and profit from operations dived 73 per cent to $294m.

This was the first decline for Nvidia for five years.
Three reasons given:
1) "...drop in sales to gaming revenue to $954m" due to "Nvidia made a big gamble on crypto miners snaffling up fat GPUs and it simply hasn't paid off".
2) "...deteriorating macro economic conditions, particularly in China, impacted consumer demand for our GPUs"
3) "...sales of the high-end next-gen architecture, the GeForce RTX 2080 and 2070, came in lower than planned"

Maybe they might reduce to prices, in order to clear some stock and tempt people to take a chance on the RTX range...as it seems to me that most people just seem to be content with their 10xx Series GPUs.

regards
Tim
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Re: Pick a number - GTX1180 / GTX2080 / RTX2080

Post by Jeffers »

My 2 year old 1070 is still doing all I need it to do....
Not seeing a need for an upgrade at the moment.
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